Fighters who are both ATG 1 and H2H at there weight?

Ricardo Lopez at 105. Chang at 108. Tapia at 115. Mayweather at 130. Hearns at 154. Usyk at 200. Ali at heavyweight.

Greb is the goat at 160 but I got Hagler at #1 h2h. Same thing at 175. I got Spinks at #1 h2h even though he isn't the lhw goat (unpopular, I know).

 

I wouldn't strongly disagree and H2H I'd pick Jones but achievement-wise? Maybe more debatable. And are we talking strictly supermiddleweights or guys who weighed in around 168 (e.g. old light-heavyweights)?

 

I think Charles and Robinson are the two strongest picks as well. Obviously it's all hypothetical but if we're trying to do it with any degree of certainty I'd probably just include those two.

Interested to see who you consider the 4 heavyweights above Ali H2H though. I think that's quite low for a guy who beat Liston, Foreman and Frazier (all arguably top 10 heavyweights). Is it just modern super heavies like Lennox Lewis who you rank above him H2H?

 

122

 

Jimmy Wilde for Flyweight
Ruben Olivares bantamweight
Possibly Jose Napoles at 140 / 147

Superflyweight is hard. You've got people like Johnny Tapia, Jiro Watanabe, Sung Kil Moon and Khaosai Galaxy to pick from.

 

I sort of get it as an overall H2H assessment... I just can't get my head round him having actually beaten Liston, Foreman but then being ranked below them H2H. Particularly as most of the other matchups are hypotheticals and those were actual fights that happened.

You also say Ali would lose to Frazier but he beat him 2 out of 3 - was that just a mistake in your post? Sorry, I'm not being facetious I'm just genuinely confused by it.

 

How about Joe Gans at lightweight?

 

Muhammad Ali - I have Ali as top dog both resume wise and H2H.

Ezzard Charles - For me Ezzard has done enough to pip both posts. Beating Moore 3 out of 3 is just part of what he did but my oh my does that part sure gives him a lot of traction both resume wise and H2H as well.

Thomas Hearns - Hearns absolutely has McCallum covered for resume so it all comes down to how an individual feels H2H. I think Hearns would beat McCallum so Hearns trumps both counts for me.

Sugar Ray Robinson - No explanation needed and in a stacked division to boot. Robinson at Welter would be the strongest name on my list per the criteria.

Wilfredo Gomez - Greatly aided by an obscure division comparative to others named. Great dominant fighter tho.

 

Roy Jones jr at SMW has gotta be there

 

It's a fair shout. I think either of those two or Gans have a fair argument to be top in both categories. If I took time to analyse it I'd ultimately probably go with Duran too.

 

And there are others that say Marciano was actually cruiser-sized and should be #1 at the weight

 

As mentioned already Charles at light heavy, Robinson at welterweight and Gomez at super bantamweight. Even Floyd at super feather is a possible one although I might rate Arguello over him at the weight.