Fighters who are often lauded as all time greats.....

Yes. But it can't be said about Tszyu, Cotto or Mosley, any of whom Floyd could have fought. You couldn't say it about Paul Williams either, but he was relatively unproven when both he and Floyd were at ww, Floyd is not really culpable in that instance. Not many would chase a fight with a physical freak when he brings no real profile, fanbase or money to the table.

 

I think Castillo deserves to be placed in a higher bracket than Chico. I rank JLC as 10th best fighter of 2000-2009. Chico ain't even close to that IMO.

 

I dont know how you could say he aint even close. They have relatively close resumes as far as wins and maybe Corrales a tad better. I would say Corrales was the more dangerous puncher of the two as well.

 

Heres my take on Floyd. Take it how you want. Floyd has been fighting as a pro for over a decade. He was signed by Top Rank and watched fellow stable mates pass him in box office draw with less talent. He may be talented but his style puts most to sleep. I believe he did enough at lightweight to be considered great. I think at some point Floyds motivation turned to money rather than legacy starting with the Gatti fight. He was more excited at the fact that the fight with Gatti did well rather than actually shutting him out especially after the dismal attendance of the Corrales fight where he felt he would sell out the Grand Garden.
From that point forward, he looked to the biggest money fights. Fights with Ricky Hatton, ODLH, Zab Judah, and Shane Mosley (who he tried to make a fight with), were the biggest money fights possible.
Personally I dont think Floyd is afraid to fight some of the guys you mentioned or ducked them but rather he is just unmotivated to fight for a payday he doesnt feel is appropriate for him to lace em up. Unfortunately thats the way it is, the man is only motivated by money and the materialistic things it brings him. I dont think his credibility will ever be restored in the eyes of fight fans, even with a dominating win over Pac, but thats kind of his own doing.
Fortunately for us, the biggest challenge for Mayweather also represents the biggest payday for Mayweather, so hes motivated for the fight. Richard Schafer leaves today to fly to Vegas to start negotiating the fight with Arum on Floyds behalf.

 

Schmeling, Johansson, Sharkey.

 

Sometimes rating a fighter as an ATG can be very subjective like for example, Pretty Boy Floyd is an ATG at 130 pounds, he cleaned that division out thoroughly and I think nobody beats him at that weight class but does Floyd count as an ATG overall taking his whole career in account?..........That's where things can get subjective.

 

Well, in fairness to Mayweather, Baldomir was the reigning welterweight champion when PBF fought him. Hatton was the reigning hr, welterweight champion at the time. Judah was a legitimate contender at the weight and Marquez was the reigning lightweight champion. Not terrible competition, and if you add, say, the winner of Mosley-Berto and Pacquiao that'll be enough to solidify his status as a truly great fighter if you ask me.

 

Not really. Tszyu is rarely featured in ATG lists while boxers like Carlos Zarate (absolutely dreadful resume) are listed pretty high in ATG lists. Not to mention boxers like Fighting Harada, Khaosai Galaxy who also are regulars in ATG lists and many others. Tszyu is one the most underrated and disrespected boxers in regards to boxing ability which is kinda funny considering that he was one of the classiest boxers within and outside the ring.

 

You're seriously overrating Harada and Jofre TOP 25 :shock: I don't think so. Harada vs. Jofre was a pretty sloppy affair. Kingpetch is not a big win. Medel, Rudkin? I just don't see the boxing skill in Harada when I watch his fights.

Harada's resume:
WINS
Kingpetch
Medel (20 loses)
Jofre X2 (SD & UD)

LOSES
Esparza (unavenged)
Kingpetch
Medel (19 loses TKO)
Rose (unavenged)
Colter
Famechon X2

Retired at 27 (knocked out by Famechon in last fight)

Is this the resume of an ATG?

Tszyu's resume was not padded like the resumes in the old days. He fought his amateur fights in the amateurs. His 4th fight (a couple of months into his proffesional career) was against Juan Laporte. Don't be fooled by extremely padded records like the one Jofre has. Only 1 legitimate loss on his record when he had problems and bad preparations and was blindsided by Phillips who was coming down to his natural weight. Vince was a wasted talent. Still can't forget how a 37 year old Phillips was chasing the much bigger Vernon Forrest across the ring and p4p no1 prime Mosley was running and fighting for dear life against Forrest. Most of the ATG have multiple loses to lesser boxers yet they are never mentioned.
I don't have a problem with people not calling him an ATG but the same people are calling Zarate, Galaxy, Calzaghe, Harada etc. ATGs. If your strict with your criteria for ATGness apply it to all boxers not just the ones you don't like.

 

Yes it is. Kingpetch was a highly regarded champion who had twice beaten another legendary champion. Harada's win was one of the most surprising upsets of the decade.

Both very good perennial top contenders of that era.

How many other fighters have you seen outmaneuver/outflurry Jofre twice?

Most of his losses were almost a decade earlier. During his heyday as a contender (the early and mid '60s) he won the vast majority of his fights against very good competition; and of the few he did lose in that time, the only ones he failed to avenge were to Jofre.

Who else had more success against Jofre?

You forgot to mention that the decision losses to Kingpetch and Famechon were both highly controversial.

Yes.

 

You're done.

 

Pedroza and Dempsey?????

 

Agreed. The only reason i think Castillo is a little bit better is because he managed to push Mayweather in a fight he probably won, however i thought he lost to Casamayor but got the victory, where as Corrales beat Casa fair and square, he also beat Castillo himself, but nah i still agree Castillo is above him.

 

Zarate's competition wasn't great at bantamweight, but i don't think it was all that bad. Zamora of course is his best win, but he's also got Rodolpho Martinez, Alberto Davila, plus solid contenders like Angel Hernandez, Franciso Cabenella, Orlando Amores, Paul Ferrari and Francisco Cabenella. By and large, he dominated the good contenders at bantamweight just as decisively as he defeated the no-hopers, and the fact that he was never decisively defeated at the weight helps his all time ranking, too, imo.