Fighters Who, Past Or Present, Could've/Would've/Should've...........

Discussion in 'British Boxing Forum' started by jpab19, Sep 16, 2011.


  1. jpab19

    jpab19 Exploding Muffin Dad Full Member

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    .......changed up their style, or at least made small adjustments to enhance their success/longevity.

    I'm not talking a major stylistic overhaul, just intricacies, no matter how small, that could have been made to make a fighter more successful.

    Be it something as simple as someone like Juanma Lopez who should use his brain and box more, Wlad should utilise his left hook more or whether you'd like to delve deeper, something like Zab Judah shouldn't have pivoted to the side when his opponent threw a jab, as that left him wide open to a follow-up shot with no move for him to feasibly make in order to get out of danger.

    Any fighter(s) at all no matter what level, be it world level, domestic level,
    anything. Any timeframe, any era, give me some fighters who in your opinion could've had added success if they made some small adjustments to the way they fought.

    I'm ill and here all night, make it interesting.:good
     
  2. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล Full Member

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    First off, a fighter who wasn't quite capable of making the necessary adjustments although he realised the need: Miguel Cotto.

    Paul Williams has an ATG jab waiting to be utilised. But he can't do it.
     
  3. tony mush

    tony mush Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    dudey keep his mitts up
     
  4. SportsLeader

    SportsLeader Chilling Full Member

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    This might sound like an odd choice, but I think if 90's Welterweight contender Luis Garcia (Who fought champions Taylor and Blocker to SD's) had not fought so much with his chin sticking in the air, he would have been reasonably more successful. The simple process of tucking in his chin would have made him a much harder fighter to catch clean, added to his elusiveness, and probably guided him to wins over both Taylor and Blocker. He was a skilled fighter, and if he had ironed that flaw out earlier, he probably wouldn't have been flattened by Tito Trinidad either.

    I also think Tyrell Biggs was a very, very talented fighter who was good enough to win a world title, but wasn't really taught a very good 'professional' style, and suffered because of it. Biggs couldn't handle pressure, and he only seemed comfortable when he was leading, and pressing the action with his lightning quick jab. Once a fighter put him on the back foot however, he was fairly useless, and increasingly susceptible to being caught. I think that if Duva had taught Biggs not to dance around as much, and to sit down more on his punches, remain in control and not lose his focus (like Junior Jones did on a fightly basis) then he could have done some very commendable things in what was an already tought heavyweight division.
     
  5. willmc83

    willmc83 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    If Steve Collins had a fierce one punch counter punch knock out he would have been unreal. He had a fantastic chin, the ability to cut off the ring and he was as mentally poised as any boxer I've ever seen. He still wouldn't have been the best of his era but a counter punch knock out would have facilitated him to dictate the flow of fights and allow him to beat better opponents.
     
  6. Bill C84

    Bill C84 Boxing Junkie banned

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    Kirkland Lang would have had a much better legacy, If he wasn't such a nutcase and had more dedication, He had the natural talent to go far but wasted it, IMO?
     
  7. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล Full Member

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    Yep, Garcia was a dangerman. Still a good fighter in a good era for Welters.

    Biggs just seemed to be one of the first of the Ali-generation kids who really based his style on him. Just wasn't gonna' work.

    Two very good leftfield choices mate :good
     
  8. SportsLeader

    SportsLeader Chilling Full Member

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    Also, Steve Cunningham has the necessary physical attributes to be head and shoulders above everyone else at Cruiserweight by about a mile, but he just doesn't use them to his advantage. Nazim Richardson has done **** all for Cunningham IMO. It's beggining to sound almost cliche, I know, but Emanuel Steward would be the perfect coach for Steve I reckon. Steward is notoriously good at getting a fighter to use their physical attributes to their advantage, and with his superb reach and height advatages, as well as decent speed, conditioning and timing, Cunningham could be a dominant fighter, instead of a 'just better than the rest by a small margin' fighter. If Cunn didn't square up those shoulders, neglect his jab and not follow gameplans, then he'd be soooooo much better I reckon.
     
  9. SportsLeader

    SportsLeader Chilling Full Member

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    That's the best analogy I've heard on Biggs. Tried to be too flashy and it backfired badly. His management must have been on crack throwing him in with Tyson that early though :-(
     
  10. jpab19

    jpab19 Exploding Muffin Dad Full Member

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    For instance, I'll elaborate on my Judah call.

    He fights out of a philly shell guard, but, in my opinion, doesn't use it very effectively. The philly shell covers a broad spectrum of defensive uses, it's used for blocking with the shoulder, the shoulder roll, making pivoting that bit more effective and so on, but the shoulder roll is the only aspect of the guard Zab seems to use, and it's hindered him greatly.

    Watch someone who uses it excellently like Floyd Mayweather, he'll block the initial shot with the shoulder, or evade it by leaning back slightly and covering his chin with the shoulder, and then he'll roll the shoulder to evade the blow that follows it.

    What Judah does is roll the shoulder and turn away when his opponent jabs, which makes him immediately open to whatever will come after, as he's now standing side-on and leaving the entire right hand side of his head wide open for whatever might be flung at him. It's evident when Cotto turned southpaw against him more so than any other time, but it's still something that's been prevalent in his other defeats too.

    I feel he would've greatly benefitted from altering, or expanding on how he used the guard, as it would have actually made him a good defensive fighter, rather than a guy with a flashy, ''smoke and mirrors'' style.
     
  11. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล Full Member

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    I dunno Bill, is it your opinion or not? ;-)
     
  12. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล Full Member

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    I think it's most of the 80s Heavyweights themselves that were smoking crack :D
     
  13. SouthpawSlayer

    SouthpawSlayer Im coming for you Full Member

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    this thread could literally involve anyone who ever laced them up
     
  14. jpab19

    jpab19 Exploding Muffin Dad Full Member

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    Specifically what adjustments do you think he needed to make?

    I that they're obvious, what I mean is that Steward has ironed out his flaws to an extent, do you not feel them to be sufficient enough?

    It is popular to just name ''celebrity(if you will)'' trainers as the best options for a particular fighter(for instance, the 'ole: Fighter A lost, he should go to Freddie Roach, which will hopefully lead to Fighter B following suit as Freddie could make him more effective), but Cunningham is the type of guy that Steward excells with, the physical advantages he brings to the table and his excellent one-two do make him the type of guy I'd say Manny would love to get his hands on.

    Seems to me that Naz has tried to get him fighting a little bit more fluid or something, which isn't for him. USS is one of the few that actually should revert to a rather robotic style.


    That's the point.

    Every fighter has had flaws, how should they have been dealt with them is my question. Obviously not every single indiviual fighter from history, just ones that have caught peoples eye from watching them.
     
  15. SportsLeader

    SportsLeader Chilling Full Member

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    :yep

    I thought that at first, but then I thought..........Kostya Tszyu - Not a perfect fighter by any stretch of the imagination, but hardly one you would suggest should have made adjustments in order to become a greater fighter. He did the best he could with the tools he had and really couldn't have done anything with those tools to become significantly better IMO. That's just an example that came to me.

    True. Steward and Cunningham would make a terrific pair. If USS boxed as well as he could do, he really would be the King of the Cruiseweight division, and probably on his way to historical divisional greatness (Not an ATG, but a top3-5 Cruiserweight)