Fighters who succeeded despite terrible long time trainers

Lemieux`s trainer was awful during the Saunders fight, David tried nothing different and wasn`t told to cut off the ring and then one of his corner told Saunders to go away after he went to consol Lemieux after the fight. I`ve seen film studies on Roy Jones and somebody must have taught him those moves but his corner weren`t very good in the first Griffin fight where a weakness was exposed in Jones as he didn`t move out of danger and allowed himself to get pinned on the ropes, the 2nd fight was simple just bombs away and his hand speed did the rest but that wouldn`t have worked against all fighters down the years.

 

Michael Moorer under Teddy Atlas.

He was made as a fighter by Manny Steward though (Steward trained Moorer since his teens).

Had Moorer worked with Atlas since teens, no one would've ever heard of him

 

Jack Mosley was a very good trainer; he taught Shane everything from the start. His style, his mechanics all came from his father. What happens sometimes is that the relationship stagnates, when the fighter has learned all that a particular trainer can teach him.

Russ Anber makes great videos. His 'training' videos are hilarious.

Not all trainers are strong in all areas and not one trainer that has ever lived was perfect. The great Futch couldn't teach Freddie Roach to get out of the way of a punch; does that mean he didn't know how to teach defense? Gil Clancy made a mess of Oscar but a great fighter of Emile Griffith.

 

At his best, as a lightweight, it was Jack in Shane's corner. His father taught him the skills that made him a top amateur. When Shane was a lightweight he was doing things - like punching as he bobbed and weaved under punches- that you very rarely see, and that was from Jack.

I remember Shane when he was barely a toddler, at the gym, watching his dad teach other kids. That is where "naturally" gifted comes from; immersion and being prepared from day one to be a fighter. He regressed a lot after moving to 147, quit doing a lot of things, and I think that listening to his father was one. Maybe Jack had taken him as far as he could, I don't know, but he sure did play a gigantic part in Shane becoming a world champion.

 

Sonny Liston. I don't think anyone went further with less help than Sonny.

 

Interesting discussion.

 

How good was Enzo Calzaghe really?

 

i remember after lemiuex lost posting that i could not believe how unprepared he was for saunders. who did they bring in as sparring partners? did they do any cutting off the ring drills? did they work on foot work? he was completely puzzled and made no adjustments.

it would be like training for ali and not bringing in any movers, or fighting klitschko and all your sparring partners are 6'1

 

James Kirkland made it pretty far with Anne Wolfe.

 

I agree, "immersion" (good choice of words), gives kids who are in the gym at a young age an advantage. They might not box until they are older, but when they do, they usually do well. As you mentioned, some might call it being a "natural fighter", but it's more than that, they seem to learn by being at the gym, even if they aren't actually training.

Maybe it's just that "unnatural" things like being relaxed in the ring, moving with rhythm, and keeping your eyes open when being punched seem natural to kids who grow up in the gym, but "immersion" at a young age makes a fighter look like a "natural" when he starts.

 

Atlas sucked. He just about ruined Povetkin. All we got was a shell of the promise.

 

I don’t think too much of Atlas as a trainer. His whole reputation is how he allegedly willed/inspired Moorer to the HW title. Although he said the right things, Moorer didn’t even listen to him. Atlas would plead with Moorer to fight harder, and Moorer would go out there and box even more cautiously. He was possibly over-respectful of Holyfield after getting dropped by him early on.

Both Moorer and Briggs gave better efforts and showed more fire/heart with other trainers in other fights. Atlas just embarrassed Michael Grant by giving him a speech about his lack of confidence and doing it when the cameras were on and they were in the ring, rather than telling him about it in private. Emanuel Steward politely commented that Atlas was doing that for his own ego and the cameras and it was embarrassing to Grant.

Atlas can be pretty funny and amusing though, whether he’s angry as hell and ranting about something, or giving some random analogy, or talking about being a fireman.