Fighters who were rubbish in the gym, but good come fight night?

Ali. Could look terrible, but that may of been due to him just letting them wail on him. I know he did that quite often later in his career.

 

You're describing Rocky Marciano, c20

 

Never got dropped, that I saw, 'n I watched him in the gym and in camp for years, but looked like a clumsy, brawling club fighter (prelimer, at that) against flash-in-the-pan gym fighters who ultimately went nowhere.

 

Hard to imagine anyone wouldda picked Ali to've accomplished what he did if they'd watched him spar at Miami's 5th St.Gym after the Olympics.

He was still Clay then, and a lean motor-mouth who shoe shined without power or strength, or inclination, to mix inside.

Didn't look like he'd fill-out to a legit heavyweight, and was more interested in drivin' Angelo Dundee nuts, pullin' pranks with Willie Pastrano.

Thought he was gonna be a run-of-the-mill amateur hotshot who'd get flattened by the first decent opponent.

 

Just saw his 1oth fight, from 1962 against Mitcalf ... he weighted 188 pounds ... like a colt ...

 

JG and Cotto

i have read the same Dundee book its pretty good. He says Ali wasnt that great sparring

but didnt Ali spar Pastrano after the olympics and really beat up Willie?

 

Clay may have sparred with Willie, GP, but it must've been on a day I missed. Cassius and Pastrano were like Graziano 'n Pep: Anything for a laugh.

Cringed when I watched Clay spar Mike DeJohn (who he later KO'd for real) Thought, between Clay's lean frame and DeJohn's monster left hook, he might be a fatality.

 

Its more often fighters who are amazing in the gym, genuine world class but not in the ring, lacking ring confidence. THink Ryan Rhodes was far better in the ring

 

The guy in your avatar, Carlos Monzon NEVER indulged in gym wars. In an interview he criticized American fighters for leaving their best behind in the gym..saying that he only worked on "certain things" when in the gym, and that it was inportant to get "rest" as much as to work out in the gym. Keep in mind also that Monzon smoked a couple of packs of cigarette a day and only backed off to about 1 pack while in training.

 

John, what did you think of the more mature Ali (1964-1967) when you saw him? How does he rank among the fighters you've seen live?

 

That's dedication for you. Monzon did have one of the longest careers at top level though, and he has a good point. I think guys like Bowe and Taylor (Meldrick) could've had careers twice as long if they didn't go to war every time, in or outside the gym.

 

I wish I could watch films of what your eyes have seen.

Seriously.