Fighters whose greatness may be overrated

I simply won't respond to any of his posts anymore.

 

Pryor was an excellent fighter for a short period of time, but ranks nowhere close to Hearns in greatness.

He turned down fights with Leonard and Duran and gets credit for being "ducked" by them. HBO Legendary Nights perpetuated that myth, but Pryor openly spoke about turning down a Leonard fight and SI discussed the details of how the Duran fight fell apart.

Pryor didn't really do anything after the Arguello rematch as his personal demons and eye issues took over.

 

Here comes the myth again, an absolute load of rubbish.

 

Hearns and Duran and Ray and Benitez all were greater than Pryor. It is who you fight and also beat. More ability? Well, if that were the case we don't really know. Hearns had ability. The man had 67 fights in a long career of multititles in many weights.

 

The idea that Leonard feared Pryor but was willing to face Benitez, Duran and Hearns in a 2 year period is rather humorous.

Pryor gets $40k to face the great Cervantes and gets offered half a mil a few months later to face Leonard, and turned it down. And turned down $750k for a Duran fight due to managerial issues. But somehow Pryor was "feared" by all the big name welterweights and they "ducked" him.

We can thank HBO for this myth.

 

Absolutely.

 

Anyone with no decent footage.

 

I'll disagree .. Hearns was a fantastic fighter but he always had chin and stamina issues. It was proven against Leonard not once but twice. Many forget that he was hanging on for his life in the 12th round of the second fight , exhausted once again and saved from a certain KO loss if there was a 13th round. Hagler crushed him. Barkley proved his chin was vulnerable. He hung on for his life against Roldan and Kitchen. Tommy was a super exciting warrior but not a great of greats .. Pryor on the other hand was a natural lightweight that only went up to 140 because no one would fight him at 135. He was devastating at that weight, without question an all time great. He went thru Cervantes and Arguello like no one ever did before or after. His issue was his demons and they brought him down.

 

Without trying to draw a **** storm I'd say that Hagler and Monzon may be a tiny bit over rated today. Both were great fighters but there have been many , many great middleweights before and after and I don't just throw these two automatically at the top of the top ..

 

That record against top 5 guys over 15 years is quite remarkable.

 

You are unfair to Cerdan, I think, but right on with Carpentier. One of the more overrated fighters.

 

Why not start a firestorm.

Sugar Ray Robinson at middleweight. I rate SRR the greatest p4p and at welter, but his record at middle is really rather spotty. He loses to Turpin, life and death in the rematch, and then somehow there is never the rubber match despite a potential million dollar gate in the offing. On his comeback he loses to Jones, Fullmer, and Basilio. Yes, he was aging, but he was always an aging middle. His best years were at welter. At middle, I think several fellows, notably Monzon and Hagler, should rate higher.

Vitali--I don't know if he is overrated, except by some fans, but he blew the two fights which would really have put him up there.

Jake LaMotta--a guy with a spotty record. I don't recall him getting quite this buildup until the movie. His big wins are over welters, but including SRR, and an injured and aging Cerdan.

Earnie Shavers--knocked out two aging paper champs and a lot of fringe guys, but the top men and some not so top men (Stander, Quarry, Cobb) survived and beat him. Still, often rated right at the top as a puncher.

Jimmy Ellis--I have seen him rated among the top 40 heavies. Most of the heavies of the sixties and seventies behind Ali, Frazier, and Foreman are a bit overrated, and I think Ellis more than most. His biggest win over an aging Patterson was a disputed decision with no rematch.

Bob Foster--his record is so odd. He actually lost to most of the better fighters he fought. His big career defining win is probably the KO of Tiger, and in fairness he was the only guy to stop Tiger, but Tiger was 39 and had spent most of his career as a middle. Who comes next? Old Eddie Cotton? Chris Finnegan? Probably Pierre Fourie. A good champ who fought what was there, but what was there? He would look so much better if he had gotten wins over proven men like Harold Johnson or Gregorio Peralta on the way up.

 

My top 5 off hand ,in no order.


1. Riddick Bowe ....Bowes true strength was his size. Hes the poster boy for overatted when ppl start to lable him as the best big man ever. Golota completely crushed this theory bc Golota is the only true skilled SHW he fought.Holyfield at 205 made Bowe look good in itself...bowe was very good fighter but overatted is the exact word that descibes his standings on here.

2. Muhammed Ali. Alis as the BEST fighter ever is without a doubt the biggest overatted lable in boxing history. The notion at 205/210 fighting out matched other unskilled or overly over matched guys is mind boggling how he got this standing? His best win was over the hill Liston in VERY contraversial fights ,and hard fought fights with guys not even good enough to be some sparring partners for most.

Ironically the 70's version was made to fight bigger more skilled guys better than the 60's one and he lost to Frazier and for me twice.The fight where he gets saved by the bell vs cooper somehow gets unnoticed and is considered straw man points? Theres so much wrong here im going to cut it short.

Muhammed Ali the greats of All time? Yea probably.

muhammed ali the BEST fighter of all time? No.

3. Joe Louis. Overatted how ? As the PERFECT fighter. louis was anything but.Lacked abilities to keep aggressive guys off him ,left hands low for counters and had slow stationary plodding footwork making it hard against movers too.The Billy Conn fight shows this more than any other and that guy was just 170 or so pounds.Louis was dropped numerous times as well by not even power punchers and slow sloppy ones just bc of his defensive holes.

4. George Foreman. Somehow hes seen as the unbeatable fighter if Ali wasnt around. Lets recap here...He lost to a poor Holmes in jimmy Young and nearly lost to the only power puncher of same size in Lyle who was not a great boxer. his skills ,he had a good jab thats his bread and butter.He lacked good stamina ,and discipline as fights went on.His biggest hole was defense and even against guys like Peralta show this.What made him formidable like Bowe was mainly size.Which helped him out in th 90's against bigger stronger guys even though being out matched in some.

He has a long list of ducks and self admitted to most of them in both eras....this hurts his standings to any unbiased fan.Out of the fact he won the title as the oldest Hw is the only reason he makes my top ten greatest fighters of all time.I still believe he had the best chin in HW history in his comeback if not top 3.

5. Rocky Marciano. Just because hes undefeated,the myth he would defeat most modern HW's dont reflect the fact most guys he fough were under 200 pounds.This isnt his fault so we will look at skill too....no jab,plodding footwork,a grinder who had no elusive skills unless he was at your chest and could duck under close shots.Really its the same reason ali is overatted a lable in which the name itself sells the fighter not what real scenerios would play out.


keep in mind overatted doesnt mean not skilled,it means something thats more than it is.

 

I was about to post Riddick Bowe, Muhammad Ali and Lennox Lewis because he is labeled as an unbeatable fighter
by some idiots but you left me nothing to add, great post.

 

I beleive Lewis is a top 5 best big man of all time. Really Wlad/Joshua and Vitali level.I dont beleive you can overate him.His one black eye was not fighting Vitali in a rematch but that wouldnt make him overatted ...maybe a liitle doubtful and scared to lose his standings as the best bigman at that time if he lost. lol

Lewis avenged all loses and had one of the best overhand rights ever.He also did dominate the 90's ...anyone who can dominate an era of true HW's doesnt deserve overatted status.