Fighters you dislike

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by cross_trainer, Aug 5, 2007.


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  1. C. M. Clay II

    C. M. Clay II Manassah's finest! Full Member

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    John L. Sullivan. The guy was probably one of the most built up athletes in sports history. His style was primitive, he ran away from Peter Jackson, and his unfounded attitude towards blacks was disgusting.
     
    C. M. Clay II, Aug 15, 2007
    C. M. Clay II, Aug 15, 2007
    #76
  2. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    Built up?

    Re: Racism. Yes, he was extremely racist...but at least he suffered similar hatred as a result of his own ethnicity (Irish) from the predominantly Anglo-Saxon culture at the time. Racism is more understandable when (like Ali's) you encounter prejudice yourself.
     
    cross_trainer, Aug 15, 2007
    cross_trainer, Aug 15, 2007
    #77
  3. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    Excellent post,

    How daft of someone to make some of the uninformed statements that the last author made regarding Leonard's career, or that of his opposition's . Duran was 28 years old, and would continue to fight for years to come. Hearns was a world champ in his prime. Hagler was one of the best middleweights of all time, and had a tremendous adavantage over Leonard for the reasons you gave.

    Thanks for correcting Vantage West, as some people should really do their research before speaking/writing.
     
    mr. magoo, Aug 15, 2007
    mr. magoo, Aug 15, 2007
    #78
  4. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    On the contrary, John L's racism against blacks was particularly asinine precisely because he was on the receiving end from the host culture.
    If John L badmouthed the English, well okay, that is a bit more understandable. But blacks? If he had more character, he'd have been more sympathetic! He's the victim of bullying who himself becomes a bully.

    Malcolm X said that "black racism is [by and large] a reaction to white racism" and is far more understandable. But if Malcolm hated Puerto Ricans because of what the Irish did to him that brands him with the same rebuke.
     
    Stonehands89, Aug 15, 2007
    Stonehands89, Aug 15, 2007
    #79
  5. C. M. Clay II

    C. M. Clay II Manassah's finest! Full Member

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    Took the words right out of my mouth. If Sullivan wants to hate the British, let him hate the British, since they are the people his anger should be directed at. But to hate a different people that did nothing to you is simply unacceptible.:good
     
    C. M. Clay II, Aug 15, 2007
    C. M. Clay II, Aug 15, 2007
    #80
  6. DocDevil

    DocDevil Member Full Member

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    Iron Duke,watched the fight when it happened,and that is the way I still remember it.A whinning,complaining Jimmy Young turning the crowd against Forman.Young and his camp,complained to the media about Foreman weeks before the fight.George hands were tied from fighting his fight.Anyway,could not force myself to watch that again.
     
    DocDevil, Aug 16, 2007
    DocDevil, Aug 16, 2007
    #81
  7. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    I don't see it that way. Hating a group of people for their skin color, ethnicity, etc. is equally irrational regardless of what some of them have done in the past. It makes about as much sense as holding guys with webbed toes responsible for Stalin, or blaming blue-eyed, brown haired Austrians for Hitler.

    Sullivan was a racist who suffered racism, and so was Ali. If Sullivan believed the English were racially inferior, his belief would be just as stupid.
     
    cross_trainer, Aug 16, 2007
    cross_trainer, Aug 16, 2007
    #82
  8. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    It's strange, but often true that individuals forced to the bottom of the social ladder dislike other persecuted groups as much as they do their persecutors.
     
    cross_trainer, Aug 16, 2007
    cross_trainer, Aug 16, 2007
    #83
  9. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    Bizarre, but often true.
     
    mr. magoo, Aug 16, 2007
    mr. magoo, Aug 16, 2007
    #84
  10. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    One wonders why. :huh
     
    cross_trainer, Aug 16, 2007
    cross_trainer, Aug 16, 2007
    #85
  11. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    Or, to put it another way: If I tried to justify hating the Mongolians because their distant ancestors destroyed half the civilized world, it would be just as asinine as hating the Mongolians for no reason at all. You can't hold a "race" (dubious term by the by) responsible for its ancestors and/or people who look like them.
     
    cross_trainer, Aug 16, 2007
    cross_trainer, Aug 16, 2007
    #86
  12. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    Agreed,

    To this day, a lot of cultures disdain the English for some of the atrocities performed in the days of the monarchy, which coincides greatly with the wrongful blame that you're illuding to.
     
    mr. magoo, Aug 16, 2007
    mr. magoo, Aug 16, 2007
    #87
  13. Holmes' Jab

    Holmes' Jab Master Jabber Full Member

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    John Ruiz
    Naseem Hamed
    Mayweather Jr
    Riddick Bowe
    Hector Camacho
    James Toney
    Mike Tyson (more so post prison)


    Many of these guys were/are hellishly talented fighters, but ultimately nasty people.
     
    Holmes' Jab, Aug 16, 2007
    Holmes' Jab, Aug 16, 2007
    #88
  14. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    At the same time, the English abolished slavery around the world--the only culture in history to have done so. They brought Parliamentary democracy to quite a few nations that had previously been living under petty kings (India, for instance), and brought the rest of the world up to speed technologically.

    Mind you, they were not unequivocal altruists. A brief look at imperial history will demonstrate that. Especially in their early days, they were guilty of exterminating several groups of relatively innocent people (there's a fiery furnace reserved for some Guianan planatation owners, I'm sure). But when the Victorian English took over during the days of high imperialism in the 19th century, they managed to eliminate a surprising number of the world's problems.

    Each generation has its own characteristics and voice--modern Americans are culturally no closer to their Civil War ancestors than they are to Russia or Finland. For that matter, within a generation there's so much diversity that hating "white people", "English", or anybody else is stupid in the extreme.
     
    cross_trainer, Aug 16, 2007
    cross_trainer, Aug 16, 2007
    #89
  15. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    I'm reffering to when the Monarchy was the chief body of rule in Britain, and thus a world empire.
     
    mr. magoo, Aug 16, 2007
    mr. magoo, Aug 16, 2007
    #90
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