Fights or Fighters you remember that "evolved" the skill sets in MMA?

Discussion in 'MMA Forum' started by SuperHut, Dec 5, 2012.


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  1. Stoo

    Stoo Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    I wasnt disagreeing fella, big difference between the most famous, and the first, as Superhut seems to be claiming.

    But the myth of Lee dying whilst creating ''MMA'' and nobody cross trained until Royce entered the cage is a lot more glamorous...

    Harold Howard was cross training before the likes of Frank and Wandy entered the cage...he had a system...
     
    Stoo, Dec 6, 2012
    Stoo, Dec 6, 2012
    #76
  2. rekcutnevets

    rekcutnevets Black Sash Full Member

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    Ken Shamrock was a submission wrestler. Ken was not an elite level, Olympic accepted style of, wrestler. I think he wrestled in high school. He certainly wasn't on the level of Servern, Coleman, or Couture. Severn jumped into the UFC on a couple weeks notice, with very little knowledge of submissions, after several DAYS of training against workout partners trying to punch and kick him(with gloves on) as he tried to take them down.

    No one watched the first 3 UFCs and thought "Wow, look at this Shamrock guy. He is proving wrestling is for real!!!" Wrestling was looked at differently after UFC IV and V, and it was all due to Freddie Mercury.
     
    rekcutnevets, Dec 6, 2012
    rekcutnevets, Dec 6, 2012
    #77
  3. rusty nails

    rusty nails Tszyu for PM!! Full Member

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    i agree but id just like to add that ken was actually a very good freestyle wrestler. its not common knowledge but he actually trialled for the olympics on a dare whilst half drunk and didnt get pinned. he just had no idea how to score points in greco. this was all in his book but ive heard frank back up the story elsewhere
     
    rusty nails, Dec 6, 2012
    rusty nails, Dec 6, 2012
    #78
  4. rekcutnevets

    rekcutnevets Black Sash Full Member

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    My own list

    Royce- BJJ

    Severn- Wrestling

    Tank Abbott- GnP Creator, and rule updater. I still remember laughing out loud when I saw the rules for UFC VII, and saw the inclusion of NO FISHHOOKING. Anyone that has seen the Abbott vs Taktarov fight will get why that was a funny addition.

    Ruas- The **** your guillotine slam and demonstrating that leg kicks can lead to limping and whelps.

    Maurice Smith- Strikers have a chance if they learn how to grapple

    Steven Seagal- The Front Kick
     
    rekcutnevets, Dec 6, 2012
    rekcutnevets, Dec 6, 2012
    #79
  5. SuperHut

    SuperHut aka Rusty Shackleford Full Member

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    Because the school Frank was excited about getting a job at was a Jeet Kune Do school and he was mightily excited and everyone knows the only reason why anyone would get excited about getting a job as a teacher at the Inosanto Acedemy is because of it's connection to Bruce Lee.
     
    SuperHut, Dec 6, 2012
    SuperHut, Dec 6, 2012
    #80
  6. rekcutnevets

    rekcutnevets Black Sash Full Member

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    You probably heard Frank say it in the Ken vs Kimbo fight(that never happened) build up. I think that is where I heard him say it.

    I know you aren't trying to strike up an argument with me, nor I with you, I just want to clarify. I know Ken had some wrestling skills, but he wasn't an elite level wrestler. Ken did not put wrestling on the map, so to speak, in terms of being important in mma.
     
    rekcutnevets, Dec 6, 2012
    rekcutnevets, Dec 6, 2012
    #81
  7. rusty nails

    rusty nails Tszyu for PM!! Full Member

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    right.. ive got that part.. frank shamrock was excited about getting a job in a gym which taught jiu jitsu, wrestling and jeet kun do principles..... and???.....
     
    rusty nails, Dec 6, 2012
    rusty nails, Dec 6, 2012
    #82
  8. SuperHut

    SuperHut aka Rusty Shackleford Full Member

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    Good list.

    Not so sure about the Segal though. The videos I saw, Segal was showing Silva kicking with the lead leg. Silva KO'd Belfort with the rear leg, and the kick looked an awful lot closer to Capoeira than it did to the Segal stuff.

    And coincidentally, there's vids out there of Silva getting down in the Capoeira circle.
     
    SuperHut, Dec 6, 2012
    SuperHut, Dec 6, 2012
    #83
  9. SuperHut

    SuperHut aka Rusty Shackleford Full Member

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    At that time? That was 2000. If I remember correctly during that year the Academy was offering wrestling, BJJ, Capoeira, FMA, Silat, Muay Thai. Actually, that is no different back then as it is now. They still offer the same classes.

    They also offered Swash Buckling on Sundays. Strictly for movie actors and stunt people. Possible that Frank was excited about the connections he could make in Hollywood because it was about the same time he was thinking about fixing his teeth for the silver screen.

    (And I edited the original post you're quoting. I guess you missed the additional info I added.)
     
    SuperHut, Dec 6, 2012
    SuperHut, Dec 6, 2012
    #84
  10. rekcutnevets

    rekcutnevets Black Sash Full Member

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    That may not have been intended to be taken seriously.
     
    rekcutnevets, Dec 6, 2012
    rekcutnevets, Dec 6, 2012
    #85
  11. SuperHut

    SuperHut aka Rusty Shackleford Full Member

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    Well, it's difficult to tell when two of the top guys in the sports are training in traditional martial arts in a sport where very few train in traditional martial arts.

    You get Silva with Segal, and GPS studying under Van Damme. Makes you wonder if these guys are onto something... :think
     
    SuperHut, Dec 6, 2012
    SuperHut, Dec 6, 2012
    #86
  12. rusty nails

    rusty nails Tszyu for PM!! Full Member

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    thats all great but why are you telling me all this??
     
    rusty nails, Dec 6, 2012
    rusty nails, Dec 6, 2012
    #87
  13. SuperHut

    SuperHut aka Rusty Shackleford Full Member

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    You brought up Frank Shamrock, who coincidentally has gone on record saying "Lee is the God Father of MMA". A sentiment I happen to agree with.

    I mentioned his wish to get hired at a Jeet Kune Do Academy during that part of the discussion because you're the one who brought up Frank who seems to be on the same page as I am in regards to Lee's standing in the MMA world.
     
    SuperHut, Dec 6, 2012
    SuperHut, Dec 6, 2012
    #88
  14. SuperHut

    SuperHut aka Rusty Shackleford Full Member

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    Anyway,

    This is the last I hope to talk about Lee in this thread. This is what I have observed:

    1. There are people who only know about Lee from his films who think he would beat Mike Tyson with a flying kick.

    2. There are people who don't know **** about Lee, and think all he made were movies and don't know what they are talking about.

    3. There are people who recognize that Lee was ahead of his time and recognize him as the first guy to teach a Martial Art SYSTEM that was open to using what works rather than limiting oneself to style or tradition.

    4. There are people who think Lee was just an ordinary guy.

    5. And then, there are people who know that Lee would have zero interest in MMA because the rules don't allow eye gouging, biting or fish hooking.

    As long as you're not #1 or #2, then I really have no quarrel with you.
     
    SuperHut, Dec 6, 2012
    SuperHut, Dec 6, 2012
    #89
  15. rusty nails

    rusty nails Tszyu for PM!! Full Member

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    godfather: A man who is influential in a movement or organization, through providing support for it or through playing a leading or innovative part


    i dont disagree with that. theres no argument that lee qualifies in the above criteria.
    what im saying is many others have done far more and lee is just drop in the ocean of martial arts knowledge.
     
    rusty nails, Dec 6, 2012
    rusty nails, Dec 6, 2012
    #90
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