Fights that would measure fighters across time.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by cuchulain, Apr 15, 2012.


  1. cuchulain

    cuchulain Loyal Member Full Member

    36,422
    11,454
    Jan 6, 2007
    This thread owes some of its inspiration to boxxunggurr's thread in the general, but is a bit different.

    We've often heard that boxing is different today from when Dempsey and Johnson and Corbett and even Lewis and Ali were in the ring.

    And this is undeniable.

    Now you want to sort out your all-time lists but you're having a helluva time calibrating eras and drawing comparisons between fighters of different eras.

    That was, till you kick a can and out popped a genie who told yo that you could watch ANY FOUR FIGHTS between Any four sets of opponents from any era Time was not an issue, and all fighters would be prime and fully trained.

    In order to get then best baselining and calibration, which bouts would you select.


    Since only four bouts are available, perhaps we should sick to ONE weight division.
     
  2. DonBoxer

    DonBoxer The Lion! Full Member

    8,063
    34
    Apr 28, 2010
    I dont think its really much different from when Ali was in the ring, certainly not from Lewis.
     
  3. cuchulain

    cuchulain Loyal Member Full Member

    36,422
    11,454
    Jan 6, 2007

    Possibly.



    But I would seriously doubt that.
     
  4. Webbiano

    Webbiano Boxing Junkie Full Member

    9,600
    2,495
    Nov 6, 2011
    Heavyweight

    Ali-Lewis
    Holyfield-Frazier
    Foreman-Tyson
    Marciano-Louis

    Light Heavyweight

    Moorer-RJJ
    Spinks-Charles
    RJJ-Spinks
    Moore-Tunney

    Middleweight

    Monzon-Hagler
    RJJ-Robinson
    Lamotta-Greb
    Bhop-Hearns

    Welterweight

    Robinson-Leonard
    Armstrong-Walcott
    Hearns-Robinson
    Gavilan-Napoles

    Lightweight

    Whitaker-Duran
    Mayweather-Mosley
    Ike-Armstrong
    DLH-Pryor
     
  5. TheLockerRoom

    TheLockerRoom Member Full Member

    486
    0
    Apr 12, 2012
    Wouldn't be a contest.
     
  6. Son of Gaul

    Son of Gaul Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    15,628
    30
    Feb 16, 2010
    Middleweight:

    Ketchel-Graziano
    LaMotta-Tiger
    RJJ-SRR
    Monzon-Hagler
     
  7. Bill Butcher

    Bill Butcher Erik`El Terrible`Morales Full Member

    28,518
    82
    Sep 3, 2007
    Fights from certain divisions that would give me personal satisfaction (Primes)

    Heavyweight: Muhammad Ali vs Lennox Lewis.....
    Reason - Lennox is a bit overrated these days & a prime Ali would set the record straight on that **** one way or another.

    Middleweight: Sugar Ray Robinson vs Bernard Hopkins.....
    Reason - B-Hop thinks he`s a technical genius, lets see what answers he has against the SRR that stopped Lamotta, my guess is none.

    Welterweight: Pernell Whitaker vs Floyd Mayweather.....
    Reason - I tried to like floyd because I enjoy watching him in the ring but he simply isn`t playing the game & needs to be beaten in the worse way possible for him & thats by being outboxed so lets see how he handles the Whitaker that beat Chavez & Mcgirt at 147.

    Lightweight: Roberto Duran vs Julio Cesar Chavez....
    Reason - I actually like these guys equally but Duran gets his credit & Chavez doesn`t, people think Duran would win easily but I know it would be a very close give & take war that would go to the cards & JCC would get the respect he deserves win or lose.

    Featherweight: Salvador Sanchez vs Manny Pacquiao....
    Reason - Like floyd, pac is a ****, so I`m throwing him to Sanchez to pick him apart piece by piece over 15 brutal rounds, he`s all wrong for pac & would send him packing by countering his ragged ass all night long, it would be sweet.

    :good
     
  8. Webbiano

    Webbiano Boxing Junkie Full Member

    9,600
    2,495
    Nov 6, 2011
    Why pick floyd and Whitaker 2 and 3 weights above their prime weights? Absaloute waste if you had just 4 fights too pick.
     
  9. cuchulain

    cuchulain Loyal Member Full Member

    36,422
    11,454
    Jan 6, 2007
    And not only that, but they're practically contemporaries.

    The idea is to get a sense of head-to-head assessment across the decades.

    E.g.


    Dempsey (1924) v Marciano ( 1955)
    Marciano (1955) v Tyson (1989)

    and

    Armstrong (at LW, 1937) v Duran (at LW, 1975)
    Duran (at LW, 1975) v Pacquaio (at LW, 2008 )



    This four bouts might give some relative measure of the HW and LW divisions (and by extrapolation, all of the weight classes) over a 60-65 year span.



    Which four (mythical) bouts would you select ?
     
  10. Webbiano

    Webbiano Boxing Junkie Full Member

    9,600
    2,495
    Nov 6, 2011
    :good

    If I had just the four?

    Ali-Lewis - in my eyes the two best H2H heavyweights although I have Lewis around 5-6 ATG too see how he does against prime Ali could solidify that ranking if he was to lose a close decision or even better it if he won a close decision

    Robinson-Leonard - at Welterweight there's no greater possible match up in my eyes. Both ATG and p4p no.1 against a p4p top 10. Would be an epic

    Whitaker-Duran - Duran was an absolute beast at Lightweight and many assume him to be unbeatable at it. Let's see how he does against the potentially slickest fighter of all time, my money would be for Pernell to nick a close one

    Monzon-Hagler - the 2 best middleweights H2H in my mind (Greb is the ATG no.1 however I only rate him top 5 H2H)
     
  11. Bill Butcher

    Bill Butcher Erik`El Terrible`Morales Full Member

    28,518
    82
    Sep 3, 2007
    Not really, I think both became better technical boxers up at 147, they weren`t as active as they were in the lower weights but IMO they were better boxers than at the lower weights.

    Put it this way, neither became undisputed p4p no1 until they fought at WW, this was the high point of both mens careers.

    I think this match would be a brilliant technical masterpiece... one that Whitaker would win.
     
  12. frankenfrank

    frankenfrank Boxing Junkie Full Member

    13,965
    68
    Aug 18, 2009
    HW :
    Doug Jones vs Max Schmelling
    Tua vs Louis
    McCall (1994) vs Vitali (prime)
    McCall (1994) vs George Foreman (1974 , but in a cool place)

    prime Cautios Play vs Pinklon Thomas / Carl Williams / Tim Witherspoon could also put some things in perspective , just like Ali vs Wlad or Vitali would .

    prime Foreman vs prime Valuev would be nice as well

    LHW :
    Roy Jones vs Doug Jones (of d Harold Johnson fight)
    Bob Foster vs Doug Jones (of d Harold Johnson fight , so it would b a title fight)
    Muhammad Qawi vs Archie Wright
    Ezzard Charles vs Doug Jones (d 171 lbs Doug Jones)

    Spinks vs Doug Jones and vs Ezzard Charles will b very needed just as much

    SMW :
    Roy Jones (1994) vs James Toney (1993/2)
    Roy Jones vs Lloyd Marshall
    Gerald McClellan vs Joe Calzaghe
    James Toney vs Ezzard Charles

    MW :
    Carlos Monzon vs Mike McCallum
    Marvin Hagler vs Sumbu Kalambay
    Harry Greb vs Merqui Sosa
    Stanley Ketchell vs Sanderline Williams


    Ihetu vs Monzon could b nice as well , don't xpect Monzon 2 do 2 a relatively prime Ihetu what Foster did 2 him yrs past his prime .
    Also I more than just doubt Monzon's ability 2 stop d Sandman .

    LMW :
    Thomas Hearns vs Mike McCallum
    Ray Leonard vs Julian Jackson
    Bruce Curry vs Simon Brown
    Donald Curry (partially rehydrated "welterweight") vs Jose Luis Lopez

    WW :
    Walker Smith Jr vs Sam Langford
    Walker Smith Jr vs Paul Williams
    Ray Leonard vs Marlon Starling
    "Montreal" Duran vs Carmen Basilio

    LWW :
    Oscar Delahoya vs Manny Pacquiao
    Pernell Whitaker vs Barney Ross
    Robero Duran vs Julio Cesar Chavez
    Vinny Pazienza vs Aaron Pryor (would surprise many , but not myself)

    LW :
    Henry Armstrong vs Alexis Arguello
    Pernell Whitaker vs Floyd Mayweather Jr (2 put some things in proportion)
    Jose Luis Ramirez vs Ike Williams
    Orzubek Nazarov vs Barney Ross

    FW :
    Salvador Sanchez vs Alexis Arguello
    Juan LaPorte vs Henry Armstrong
    Eusebio Pedroza vs Sandy Saddler
    Naseem Hamed vs Manny Pacquiao

    BW :
    Eder Jofre vs Carlos Zarate
    could post a few more , but haven't really got 2 these weights yet .
     
  13. Kalasinn

    Kalasinn ♧ OG Kally ♤ Full Member

    18,318
    57
    Dec 26, 2009
    Money May (Hatton fight) vs. Montreal Duran
     
  14. natonic

    natonic Boxing Addict Full Member

    5,581
    83
    Jul 9, 2008
    Nice post. I agree almost completely. Lightweight Chavez was seriously formidable. Ultimately, I think Duran's speed of foot could make the difference in a close one.
     
  15. Bill Butcher

    Bill Butcher Erik`El Terrible`Morales Full Member

    28,518
    82
    Sep 3, 2007
    I have always favoured Duran in this match-up myself if forced to pick but by the slimmest of margins & only because of his natural size & 2 handed power rather than his feet... others think Duran wins easy, they are living on planet pluto IMO... I think it would be a Morales/Barrera type fight (1st fight), back & forth war & brilliant to watch but a nightmare to score.