Final top heavyweight punchers lists. 12, 40, and 60!

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mendoza, Feb 29, 2008.


  1. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Here are my top 12, 40 and 60 heavyweight punchers. The top 12 is the dynamite dozen. The top 40 is more of a pure punchers list, the top 60 is more fan friendly and includes several bubble type of candidates.

    A few things.

    The list are in a mostly in a Chronological order. This means old timers will be listed first. It does not mean I think Sullvian hits harder than Tyson or Shavers! I hope this is clear.

    Criterion: This is a pure punching power type of list. The below six categories factor in making it ot not.

    1 ) Fighter should have a high knock out percentage in his wins. We are grading power here, not chins. Punchers should usually stop journeyman type of opponents. If they do not, it is a negative against them.

    2 ) KO's in non-heavyweight divisions do not count, but not stopping fighters in lower weight divisions is viewed as a slight negative. Power rarely increases when fighters move up in weight classes.

    3 ) Stopping hard to stop contender’s in their primes or near primes matters. So do one punch knockouts, and devastating knockouts that are far more than ten counts.

    4 ) Quality of competition is considered. Some fighters fought much harder to hit and stop fighters than others.

    5 ) Fighters who proved their power on film by hitting opponents or heavy bags with great force cement their status

    6) Guys with numerous testimonials about their punching power are given extra considerations. This is especially true for fighters I have no seen on film.

    The most qualified the fighters will rank highly in all six categories!

    With that said here are lists.

    Up first. The Fan’s top 60 all time punchers:

    1. Sullivan
    2. Fitzsimmons
    3. Maher
    4. Slavin
    5. T. Shakrey
    6. Jeffries
    7. McVey
    8. Langford
    9. Wills
    10. Willard
    11. Fulton
    12. Dempsey
    13. G. Godfrey
    14. Fripo
    15. Schmeling
    16. J. Louis
    17. Lem Franklin
    18. Turkey Thompson
    19. M. Baer
    20. B Baer
    21. C. Williams
    22. Ray
    23. Satterfield
    24. Gomez
    25 Moore
    26. Marciano
    27. Patterson
    28. Johansson
    29. Liston
    30. Frazier
    31. Mac Foster
    32 Foreman
    33. Shavers
    34 Lyle
    35. Norton
    36. Witherspoon
    37. Cooney
    38. Page
    39 Coetzee
    40. J Smith
    41. Tyson
    42. Bruno
    43. Ruddock
    44 Bowe
    45. Morrison
    46 Morrer
    47. Briggs
    48. Ibebuchi
    49. Tua
    50. C. Sanders
    51. Hide
    52. L. Lewis
    53. McCall
    54 Rhaman
    55 Maskeav
    56. V Klitschko
    57. W Klitschko
    58. Brewster
    59. Peter
    60 Virchis

    Just missing the cut, and very arguable: Pat Killen, Lee Q Murray, Curtis Sheppard, Jose Urtrain, Jeff Merrit, Roy Williams ,Kallie Knotzee ,John Tate, Lem Franklin, Joe Choynski, and Buster Douglas. These guys would be in the top 75.
     
  2. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Top 40 all time heavyweight punchers. Same rules:

    The list is mostly in a Chronological order. This means old timers will be listed first. It does not mean I think. Sullvian hits harder than Tyson or Shavers! I hope this is clear.

    Criterion: This is a pure punching power type of list! The below five categories.

    1 ) Fighter should have a high knock out percentage in his wins. We are grading power here, not chins. Punchers should usually stop journeyman type of opponents. If they do not, it is a negative against them.

    2 ) KO's in non-heavyweight divisions do not count, but not stopping fighters in lower weight divisions is viewed as a slight negative. Power rarely increases when fighters move up in weight classes.

    3 ) Stopping hard to stop contender’s in their primes or near primes matters. So do devastating knockouts that are far more than ten counts.

    4 ) Quality of competition is considered. Some fighters fought much harder to hit and stop fighters than others.

    5 ) Fighters who proved their power on film by hitting opponents or heavy bags with great force cement their status

    6) Guys with numerous testimonials about their punching power are given extra considerations. This is especially true for fighters I have no seen on film.

    The most qualified the fighters will rank highly in all six categories!

    With that said here is the top 40 all time heavyweight punchers list:

    1. Sullivan
    2. Fitzsimmons
    3. Maher
    4. Slavin
    5. Jeffries
    6. McVey
    7. Langford
    8. Wills
    9. Dempsey
    10. Fripo
    11 J. Louis
    12. M. Baer
    13. B Baer
    14. Ray
    15 Marciano
    16. Patterson
    17. Johansson
    18. Liston
    19. Frazier
    20 Foreman
    21. Shavers
    22 Lyle
    23 Witherspoon
    24. Cooney
    25. Page
    26. Tyson
    27. Bruno
    28. Ruddock
    29 Bowe
    30. Morrison
    31 Morrer
    32. Briggs
    33. Ibebuchi
    34. Tua
    35 C. Sanders
    36. L. Lewis
    37 Maskeav
    38. V Klitschko
    39. W Klitschko
    40. Brewster


    Just missing the cut, and very arguable: Everyone not listed, but in the top 60.
     
  3. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    The dynamite dozen list. To me this was the toughest one to make.


    The list is in Chronological order. This means old timers will be listed first. It does not mean I think. Sullvian hits harder than Tyson or Shavers! I hope this is clear.

    Criterion: This is a pure punching power type of list! The below five categories.

    1 ) Fighter should have a high knock out percentage in his wins. We are grading power here, not chins. Punchers should usually stop journeyman type of opponents. If they do not, it is a negative against them.

    2 ) KO's in non-heavyweight divisions do not count, but not stopping fighters in lower weight divisions is viewed as a slight negative. Power rarely increases when fighters move up in weight classes.

    3 ) Stopping hard to stop contender’s in their primes or near primes matters. So do devastating knockouts that are far more than ten counts.

    4 ) Quality of competition is considered. Some fighters fought much harder to hit and stop fighters than others.

    5 ) Fighters who proved their power on film by hitting opponents or heavy bags with great force cement their status

    6) Guys with numerous testimonials about their punching power are given extra considerations. This is especially true for fighters I have no seen on film.

    The most qualified the fighters will rank highly in all six categories!

    With that said here is the top 12 dynamaite dozen:

    1. Jeffries
    2. Dempsey
    3. J. Louis
    4. M. Baer
    5. Marciano
    6. Liston
    7. Foreman
    8. Shavers
    9. Tyson
    10. Tua
    11. L. Lewis
    12. W Klitschko

    Just missing the cut, and arguable: Everyone not listed here, but in the top 40.
     
  4. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Excellent work, well done. It is as you know the nature of these things for one to look for omissions or errors in these type of lists and for me the big No-No is Jim Jeffries as a top 12 (or maybe top 40 even) puncher. He rarely knocked anyone senseless and fairly chinny guys like McCoy, Choynski, Ruhlin, Fitz either went the distance with him or lasted a long time. Sharkey lasted twice but while Tom was durable Choynski, Fitz, Ruhlin and Maher had him in a lot more trouble. Don't get me wrong, Jeff was a very effective aggressive ATTRITIONAL attacker but top 12 puncher? I for one can't see it.
    Never-the-less thought provoking stuff and interesting.
     
  5. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    I was tempted to put in Morrison, V Klitschko, and a few others in the top 12, but in the end, I felt the top 12 had to be famous and reflect every era.
     
  6. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Maybe Maher should be your "early" big hitter. He had Sharkey, Choynski, Fitz, Ruhlin in bigger trouble than Jeff, routinely knocked second tier fighters senseless, and all these without the physical size, speed and boxing ability of Jeffries.
     
  7. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Disagree. Let's look at the common opponents. Maher could not Ko Fitz, floor Shareky, Ko Ruhlin, or KO Munroe.

    Jeffries did Ko Fitz 2x, Floor Shrakey 3x, KO Ruhlin, and KO Munore.

    The only guy Maher put away that Jeffries did not was Choynski.

    I don't think Maher is top 12. Top 40, Ok, but based on reputation more so than results.
     
  8. Sonny's jab

    Sonny's jab Guest

    So, was Jeffries a harder hitter than Fitzsimmons then ?
     
  9. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Maher did floor Sharkey (six count in round 7), ko'd Ruhlin(admitedely when Gus was a novice) he had Fitz out in the first round of their first bout but was denied by an early bell-Fitz incidently said Maher had him in the greatest trouble in a 1903 interview-and as for Monroe Maher was way past his best and took the fight only as an opponent. Dispite this, he nearly ko'd Jack in the second when he floored him (some say accidently!).
    The other opponents -Fitz, Sharkey, Ruhlin ,Choynsky-were all younger when they faced Maher. Jeffries was a much better fighter than Peter so it is no surprise that he got better results against some common opponents but Jeff rarely took out a decent opponent early. O'Donnell, Slavin, Goddard, Craig, Godfrey, Kennedy, C.C.Smith and others generally were put to sleep by Maher.
    But I can agree to disagree.
     
  10. OLD FOGEY

    OLD FOGEY Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I know of no observer who saw both Fitzsimmons and Jeffries who considered Jeff the harder puncher. Many, notably Hype Igoe and Jack London, were explicit in considering Fitz the more explosive puncher. Performances against common opponents certainly favor Fitz.

    Corbett:
    Fitz-----KO 14
    Jeff-----KO 23, KO 10

    Sharkey:
    Fitz-----LF 8, KO 2 (Sharkey was dropped and counted out in the 8th round and the referee then decided to DQ Fitz--Few agreed with this decision. The second fight was a clean knockout.
    Jeff-----W 20, W 25

    Ruhlin:
    Fitz-----KO 6
    Jeff-----Draw 20, KO 5
    Fitz put Ruhlin down for the count and then some. Ruhlin retired against Jeff in their second fight.

    Choynski:
    Fitz-----Draw 5 (Choynski was down several times. He was flat on his back at the end when the sheriff stopped the fight)
    Jeff-----Draw 20

    Jeff had 7 fights against these men, with five wins and two draws, scoring three knockouts. Fitz had five fights, with three wins, a DQ loss, and a draw, also with three knockouts, but Fitz was jobbed out of KO wins in the Choynski and first Sharkey fights. He should have had KO wins in all five bouts.
    In Jeff's defense, one could argue he was green for the Choynski and first Ruhlin fights.
     
  11. OLD FOGEY

    OLD FOGEY Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Mendoza--I raised this issue before, but, frankly, I don't understand how any serious observer can consider Tommy Gomez a superior puncher to Ezzard Charles. Gomez was a provincial fighter who built his record against third and fourth raters. His few forays into top-level competition, Walcott, Oma, Satterfield, ended in defeats. He might have defeated 2 or 3 men who were ranked when he fought them. Charles fought 58 bouts against rated opposition and at least 75 against men who were rated at one time or another. He ko'd an imposing list of rated heavyweights--Jimmy Bivins, Elmer Ray, Joe Baksi, Pat Valentino, Gus Lesnevich, Freddie Beshore, Lee Oma, Rex Layne, Joe Kahut, Bernie Reynolds, Tommy Harrison, Coley Wallace, and Bob Satterfield, as well as Archie Moore, were all top ten heavyweights at one time or another. You can say what you want about percentages against general opposition, but you do not pick George Chuvalo and Bob Cleroux over Johansson and Patterson, despite their higher career knockout percentages. Why the standard reverses for Charles is difficult to understand other than having an ax to grind. Charles is a much better candidate than his lesser contemporary Gomez, as well as Ray, whom Charles cleanly knocked out.
     
  12. Calroid

    Calroid Active Member Full Member

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    Tony Galento didn't make the top 60 list?
     
  13. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Some say yes. Others say no. Jeffries did knock out better fighters, always scored at least one knockdown in all of his matches ( save the comeback ) and owns the fastest linear title bout KO win.

    I took some liberty on the dynamite dozen in terms of fame and name recognition. For example, I think Morrison hit harder than a few people on the list but did not choose to list him.
     
  14. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Charles was an average puncher for heavyweights. Historians today think he did not have a good heavyweight punch and after watching most of his fights I agree. While Charles did score more KO's, it was due to his better skills , stamina, and chin, not superior punching power. I beleive Gomez hit harder. This is a pure punchers list, not a ranked punchers list.
     
  15. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Jack Johnson rated Choynsky and Fitz as superior punchers to Jeffries,but its no surpise to me that Mendoza has Jeffries as high as he does,he is after all his biggest fan.The consensus is that Jeffries was a heavy puncher,but not a dynamite one,which I think is reflected in the amount of rounds he usually needed to stop men considerably smaller than himself,he would not make my top 12 ,let alone no 1 .Mendozas list is pretty good I feel, apart from the lack of objectivity about Jeffries.