Final word on Bute-Andrade

Bute didn't have the power jab to keep Andrade at bay, so Andrade was allowed to use his head and elbows against Bute the way he was never allowed to do against Kessler, who didn't need to clinch either, because the jab and 1-2 were enough.

 

Yeah, Andrade didn't have a mark on his face. Whether or not Bute hits harder or whatever, it still doesn't prove which fight was the toughest. Andrade was hit with 400 punches, 150 of which were power punches against Kessler, and he was being outboxed, and never gained any footing. I don't have any compu stats for Bute-Andrade, but it was not in the neighborhood - I don't think that Andrade threw 935 punches in this fight.

So come now - do you really believe it?

 

Believe what? That Andrade had a tougher time against Bute? Yeah, he did, not physically, because he worked harder physically against Kessler, but in boxing terms, because the tactical and style challenges were greater and more tricky against Bute. He also got hurt more by Bute, irrespective of whether he was hit less, which he definitely was, compared to the Kessler fight.

 

What you are saying is really working against what you are trying to say. Kessler has the tools to fend off a constantly pressure fighter like Andrade, has nothing to do with the amount that Andrade pressures. Au contraire - it should then be easier against Bute. But he didn't.

 

You are talking nonsense now, Decebal. Tactically and style disadvantages were tougher on Andrade in the Kessler fight than in the Bute fight. Against Bute, Andrade had the advantage, against Kessler he was at disadvantage.

There is really nothing that speaks for you other than he was cut more against Bute, which could easily be due to this fight was less clean.

 

I believe we're in agreement here.

 

This content is protected

 

Couple of things about this post. Even had the official counted faster, Bute was up before 10 seconds had elapsed on my personal count.

And if the count is discontinued, it picks up from the point where it left off. So if the count is discontinued at six, it resumes at six, rather than going immediately to seven.

 

Final word, in my opinion, should be "rematch", because lost in all of this was the fact that this was an excellent fight, that did credit to both men.

 

:good

 

Decebal - that is terribly wrong. Andrade didnt have anything on Kessler in their fight. It was a clinic for 12 rounds.

Bute had to hold excessevely in order to survive in there and used the holding to great advantage. This kind of infighting can cause headbutts, elbows hitting the face etc. This is one of the reasons why Andrade looked like looked.

Im not trying to take anything away from the boxing lesson Andrade received before the 12'th round but to say that Andrade received more punishment (boxingwise) is a very bold statement.

 

DanePugilist,

I had Andrade winning the first round agains Kessler, with rounds nine and 11 very close. To say that Andrade didn't win any rounds against Kessler or, more commonly, that Kessler won every minute of every round, is an oft repeated mantra, but, frankly, it's not true.

Kessler did school Andrade, though, no doubt about it. 10-2 Kessler!

It was Andrade who was using his head and elbows to get to Bute on the inside, in the clinches initiated by Bute. But Bute hurt Andrade with his punches too:

Watch this slide show and see Bute hit Andrade hard:

http://www.fightnews.ca/

Kessler hit Andrade more, but his punches were more predictable than Bute's. Kessler's punches were straight. The jab almost always came straight at him, the 1-2 did too. Andrade rolled with those punches beautifully, and wasn't hurt by them as much as all that. He was mostly just stopped in his track.

Bute's punches were not intended to stop him in his track or to break him down, but to hurt him. He was being caught from angles, unexpectedly, on the wrong foot, off-balance, etc. You saw Andrade stumbling back after a Bute punch, and then being caught off-balance and "slipping". That never happened against Kessler.

Even assuming Andrade was hurt "accidentally" by Bute, on the inside, who cares? He was hurt! Against Kessler, he never got to fight on the inside, because he couldn't get past the jab, ever!

I am not trying to take anything from Kessler's performance, or magnify Bute's, or anything like that. Not here to practice my debating skills either...just said what I thought. Andrade, when asked which fight had been harder, said the one against Bute. His face told a similar story. He worked harder physically against Kessler, and he took more punches, but Bute's punches were harder, hurt him more and the challenged presented by Bute were greater: instead of jab, jab, jab, 1-2, jab, 1-2, against Bute, he had to contend with, jab, unexpected left hand in the face, movement, out of postion, jab, hook, counter-punch that beat him to the punch, clinch, uppercut, hook, straight left, jab, straight left, etc...you get the picture.

Still, Andrade did considerably better against Bute than against Kessler. He hurt Bute much more, obviously, than he had hurt Kessler (almost not at all); Bute was exhausted, hurt and exhausted some more; Kessler was only exhausted.

 

Good to read you guys talking of boxing.

 

I prefer talking boxing although I am dragged into all sorts of technical debates not directly linked to actual boxing way, way too much...:-( :verysad :-( :verysad :-(

 

Andrade said the fight was harder in which I totally agree.

Good post btw:good