Finally certain proof that Hagler beat Leonard!

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mark ant, Dec 12, 2018.



  1. mark ant

    mark ant Canelo was never athletic Full Member

    36,654
    16,430
    May 4, 2017
    Hagler landed 198 punches
    Leonard landed 163
    This content is protected
     
  2. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member Full Member

    51,896
    64,231
    Aug 21, 2012
    Canelo / GGG proved that you can still rob a guy that lands more punches if you're flashy enough and have a story to tell.
     
  3. mark ant

    mark ant Canelo was never athletic Full Member

    36,654
    16,430
    May 4, 2017
    Canelo landed harder punches than Ray did though.
     
    dinovelvet likes this.
  4. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member Full Member

    51,896
    64,231
    Aug 21, 2012
    Canelo's judges are better than Leonard's judges ...
     
  5. mark ant

    mark ant Canelo was never athletic Full Member

    36,654
    16,430
    May 4, 2017
    lol! That could be a thread by itself!
     
    C.J. likes this.
  6. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    95,101
    24,870
    Jun 2, 2006
    It was a very close fight.I just gave it to Leonard,but it could equally have gone the other way .Contests that close can't be classified as robberies,imo
     
  7. mark ant

    mark ant Canelo was never athletic Full Member

    36,654
    16,430
    May 4, 2017
    It was a great fight but I think Ray is overrated by some at middle.
     
  8. Bronze Tiger

    Bronze Tiger Boxing Addict Full Member

    4,005
    4,757
    Jun 23, 2018
    That’s the total for the fight...that’s not round by round.
     
  9. richdanahuff

    richdanahuff Boxing Junkie Full Member

    11,055
    10,843
    Oct 12, 2013
    Punches landed is only part of the judging
    Ring generalship
    Harder punches etc...
    Judge preference in style (bias)
    Judges angle to the action

    What SRL understood and every other fighter started to be trained to do is if you control the last 30 seconds of every round the judges would forget the first 2 and a half. Hagler did nothing flashy he was a Frazier type consistent honest workman and this attitude worked against him against a master showman like SRL

    FYI I felt Hagler eeked it out but SRL's social IQ won him the fight....and Hagler knew it...he should have been in a seek and destroy mode SRL could not have gone 12 rds with MMH with that pressure
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2018
    Flash24 and Fergy like this.
  10. richdanahuff

    richdanahuff Boxing Junkie Full Member

    11,055
    10,843
    Oct 12, 2013
    Agreed Canelo's judges are an Institutional support mechanism SRL was smarter at understanding people, styles, judges etc....strategy
     
    BCS8 likes this.
  11. PernellSweetPea

    PernellSweetPea Boxing Junkie Full Member

    11,855
    5,366
    Feb 26, 2009
    Marvin came out right handed in the fight. It was his fault.
     
    KO KIDD likes this.
  12. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

    8,585
    11,047
    Oct 28, 2017
    If you're going by that, then you'd have to look at the round by round breakdown, but even that isn't that meaningfull, if you don't categorise the punches.

    That said I think Hagler deserved to edge it.
     
  13. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    26,344
    10,020
    Jan 4, 2008
    You shouldn't take counts like these on face value. Already in the first round I saw they counted three punches from Hagler that was just arm punches in a clinch. I don't score punches like that and nor do judges in most cases.
     
  14. Jel

    Jel Obsessive list maker Full Member

    7,353
    11,916
    Oct 20, 2017
    Who overrates Leonard at middleweight? He had one fight there - against Hagler. And he won.

    Are you just arguing that Hagler won the fight? If so, please get in line with every other apologist for Hagler’s poor performance in that fight.

    I had Leonard winning 115-113 and if I rescored it tomorrow, I don’t think I’d have Hagler ahead. He sleepwalked his way through much of the first half of the fight. He came on over the second half but Leonard did enough to pinch a round or two there.

    Punches landed doesn’t trump everything. I just watched Toney-McCallum 1. McCallum landed a higher percentage of punches and more overall than Toney, but I had Toney ahead at the end as the quality of his punches was better.

    Look, I like Hagler and have all the respect in the world for his championship reign but he made grave tactical errors before and during the fight that contributed to him losing, regardless of what the punch stats say. He fought a poor fight imo.
     
  15. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member Full Member

    48,271
    35,079
    Apr 27, 2005
    Great post.
     
    PhillyPhan69 and Jel like this.