Finally Chuvalo vs Cleveland Williams on youtube

I would like to see some Machen and Folley threads, except some hate-clubs will rise up against them.

 

I mean, he's clearly worse than Ron Lyle and nobody would ever call Lyle a great fighter[/QUOTE]
Who says?

 

See the Ring Magazine's list of 50 Greatest Heavyweights:
p. s. notice who is ranked #31
1. Muhammad Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. Evander Holyfield
4. George Foreman
5. Larry Holmes
6. Rocky Marciano
7. Sonny Liston
8. Joe Frazier
9. Jack Johnson
10. Jack Dempsey
11. Ezzard Charles
12. James J. Jeffries
13. Jersey Joe Walcott
14. Mike Tyson
15. Gene Tunney
16. Harry Wills
17. Sam Langford
18. John L. Sullivan
19. Max Schmeling
20. Max Baer
21. Floyd Patterson
22. Ken Norton
23. Riddick Bowe
24. Bob Fitzsimmons
25. Joe Jeannette
26. Jimmy Bivins
27. Jerry Quarry
28. Jack Sharkey
29. Archie Moore
30. Sam McVey
31. Cleveland Williams
32. Lennox Lewis
33. Earnie Shavers
34. Jim Corbett
35. Ernie Terrell
36. Michael Spinks
37. Jimmy Young
38. Zora Folley
39. Ingemar Johansson
40. Ron Lyle
41. Tim Witherspoon
42. Jimmy Ellis
43. Mike Weaver
44. Michael Moorer
45. James J. Braddock
46. Tommy Farr
47. Tommy Burns
48. Tommy Gibbons
49. Pinklon Thomas
50. Michael Dokes

Those guys at Ring Magazine aren't total dopes you know. There may be some bad choices and bad orderings in the list, but there will always be a good reason for any of these guys being on here. If Williams was as bad as you say he is, he wouldn't get so overrated as to land the #31 slot.

 

Untrue. Prior to facing Williams. Miteff had gone the distance with and/or outright beat Machen, Besmanoff, Chuvalo, Johnson, Valdez, Folley, etc. He was only knocked out twice before (three if you consider, a freak knee injury unrelated to the bout which happened against Besmanoff, whom he'd already defeated). Once in his 13th fight, as a young under developed 21 year old kid against another monster puncher in Dejohn.

I was going off memory for both of these men (along with Lee and Alonzo) and have checked boxrec and it seems you were right, and I was wrong. My apologies. Banks later avenged this loss the next year with a 2nd round KO, leaving his opponent unconscious for several minutes.

He was seen as a young up an comer with potential before Williams derailed all of that. "Curley Lee suffering from incurable brain damage incurred in the Cleveland Williams bout went to a life of crime and murder and is serving time in Napa's hospital for the criminally insane."

Holman was stopped 6 times before Williams fight (in short career) and as you said, it was his last fight. Again - he wasn't hard to stop.

Had you been around during that time (which judging by your username I doubt) you would've known despite his somewhat low number of KOs, he was regarded as a viscous puncher and was feared.

"Shot and washed up Charles" had nearly garnered a victory over Marciano a half year and 3 bouts prior (the bout would've been stopped in Charles' favor today)

He barely lost the series to Satterfield. In the first bout he was stopped while ahead on all scorecards at the last second. Had he lasted the round he would've gotten the better of the series but I digress.

Roy Harris just sparred with Williams so he did not lose to him making your point moot.

Terrell was knocked out against Williams, and won a controversial SD in a rematch.

Billy Daniels lost to Williams twice and still cited him as the hardest puncher he faced.

The former 2 both said, Williams hit harder than Liston.

Liston also cited Williams as the hardest puncher he faced. He'd beaten all of the noted punchers he ever faced. What's his incentive to lie?

Foreman also ranked Williams' power above Liston despite only sparring with both men at the end of their careers, putting his power among the top 3 he'd ever tasted. Why would he lie?

If you think a prime Williams was a plodder, then I've wasted my time talking to you. Their's a reason he was called The Big Cat...

Such as?

 

He's "clearly" worse than Lyle? As much as Williams record is criticized for his lack of KO wins against top competition, which top men did Lyle beat, let alone KO? How many of his KO victims were in the top ten?

Oh and for the record, I don't think Williams was "great". I do think he was better than you, Long Count, and Klompton would ever admit however.

 

calling Williams worse than Lyle is stupid for two reasons:
1) Williams was a great fighter
2) Lyle was a great fighter

 

I think great is a stretch if you're referring to them as All Time Greats. I do think Williams was a superior fighter to Lyle, as he was faster, more agile, athletic, more powerful, and had a better record against boxers.

 

So in other words, you're attacking a straw man...

 

Id thought they'd missed Lennox Lewis on here then realized he was at.. 32!?

 

Tbf, this list was in '99. Lewis still had much more to accomplish. And even so, greats are rarely given their due until post retirement.

 

Only to those with low comprehension

 

I lost count of the low blows Chuvalo threw.