Finally Chuvalo vs Cleveland Williams on youtube

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by SerbianLoudmouth, Jul 4, 2020.


  1. SerbianLoudmouth

    SerbianLoudmouth Overhand right-Suzie Q Full Member

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    He was!He never knocked anyone good except washed bums and guys not known for their chins!
    He was beagen by every good puncher he faced(Whoterspoon,Tyson,Lewis,Bonecrusher...)
    His best win was ancient Tillis,UD against McCall who was drug addict and TKO against 50 years old Bugner!
    He is frather fisted according to his record!
     
  2. SerbianLoudmouth

    SerbianLoudmouth Overhand right-Suzie Q Full Member

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    He was feather fisted again!
    Coetzee,Ferguson...were not known for their chins and they were bums!
    He lost again against every pincher he faced like Tyson,Spoon,Lewis,Bonecrusher...
    Best wins were over McCall which is UD and ancient Bugner 50 years old and he cheated and still could not knock him but Lyle and Shavers did that 20 years prior that!
    For me he is feather fisted!
     
  3. Berlenbach

    Berlenbach Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Here are Liston and Williams' common opponents and their results against them. I've left out Ali.

    Roger Rischer - Liston KO 3 / Williams KO 3
    Wayne Bethea - Liston KO 1 / Williams UD10
    Sonny Moore - Liston KO 3 and TKO 3 / Williams UD10
    Eddie Machen - Liston UD12 / Williams D10
    Ernie Cab - Liston TKO 7 / Williams KO 8
    Frankie Daniels - Liston KO 1 / Williams UD10 and UD10
    Ponce de Leon - Liston W4 / Williams W8 and KO 2

    So against their common opponents, Liston went 8-0, 7 KOs. Williams went 8-0-1, 3 KOs. Liston KO'd three men whom Williams was unable to stop. And of course he also KO'd Williams himself twice. The only man Williams KO'd whom Liston couldn't was Ponce de Leon, which was Liston's second pro bout. The difference between a good puncher and a much better one IMO.
     
  4. William Walker

    William Walker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Feather-fisted is NEVER determined by the quality of opposition, but by the outcome.
     
  5. William Walker

    William Walker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Lyle never knocked out Bugner. Shavers, Bruno, Scott Welch, and a guy named Paul Brown (Bugner's 1st pro fight) knocked Bugner out. Lyle won an SD against Bugner. You can see it on boxrec, and you can see it on boxrec. And if you don't believe that, you can watch the fight go the full 12 rounds and see the announcer announce the decision.
     
  6. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Judging from reports of his fights Savold is an underated puncher.As hard a puncher as Williams? Not in my opinion.
     
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  7. SerbianLoudmouth

    SerbianLoudmouth Overhand right-Suzie Q Full Member

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    Feather fisted is determined by everything!
    Quality of opposition is crucial thing because according to what you said Tyson is the hardest puncher because he has 20 KOs jn 1st round against bums?
    Quality of opposition is very important thing!
     
  8. SerbianLoudmouth

    SerbianLoudmouth Overhand right-Suzie Q Full Member

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    Lyle knocked down Bugner and Joe Frazier did that too!Shavers also knocked Bugner!
    Bruno never knocked but TKOed Bugner because of cuts and he cheated the whole fight with rabbit punches!
    Joe Frazier knocked down Bugner and almost killed him!
    Bruno stopped Bugner and how old was Bugner because you are talking like it was same Bugner from 70s!
    Bugner when faced Bruno was 50 years old and guess what gave him hell and he was way past his best!
    I am talking about prime Bugner who was knocked down by Shavers,Frazier and Lyle while he was on his feets and stopped by Bruno when he was in his 50s and Bruno cheated!
    Bugner on best he faced:
    Best puncher: Ernie Shavers. He was an enormous puncher, but I have real issue with that fight because of a conversation Shavers and I had years later. Apparently Don King told Ernie to get me out of that ring, by any means necessary, and not to worry about disqualification.

    Now if you watch the fight I get caught with a good right hand in round two but a follow up head butt, which the referee didn’t pick up on, caused a serious cut. That wound above my left eye required 14 stitches and it wasn’t from a punch.

    Now, take into account that Don King was a creature of incredible power within the boxing world and he played dirty as far as I’m concerned. I didn’t like him from the word go – end of story.

    I also have to say that the most vicious and relentless fighter on the planet, in those days, was “Smokin” Joe Frazier.
    Strongest: Ron Lyle. He was a very strong opponent and although I lost a close decision the bottom line is close isn’t good enough.
     
  9. William Walker

    William Walker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Three things:
    1) Lyle didn't floor Bugner, and if he did I would like you to find the part in the fight where Lyle floors him, then I will treat you with more credibility.
    2) I agree with you about Frazier-Bugner.
    3) Bugner was not prime when he fought Shavers. It was only his second fight in 5 years since losing to Lyle.
     
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  10. Jason Thomas

    Jason Thomas Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Savold fought so many top fighters we know what he could and could not do. Williams fought so relatively few top men he is somewhat of an enigma. Comparing them, all I can say is that Savold KO'd a lot more good men and was clearly short of the top men--Conn, Bivins, Mauriello, Ray, Louis, Marciano. Sort of like a puzzle which has been filled in. We can see the final picture. Williams is like an incomplete puzzle. We can each only guess what the final picture would look like. What we do know is he came up short against Liston.

    My guess is Savold was a more dangerous puncher than his rep. Williams probably less than his rep.

    I brought up Thompson and Savold, and earlier Valdes, just to compare Williams with other contenders, not to an ATG like Liston.
     
  11. SerbianLoudmouth

    SerbianLoudmouth Overhand right-Suzie Q Full Member

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    Three things:
    1)Lyle did dloor Bugner and caught him with that right and Bugner was on the floor ehich is called a slip and even Bugner himseld said Lyle gave biggest beating he got in his life!It was round 10 when Lyle almost knocked Bugner cold with that right!
    2)Bugner never mentioned Bruno and his strenght
    3)Bugner was in his prime for Shavers and his prime finished after that fight!He was not in best years but still good before Marvis Frazier fight!
    He was very past prime for Bruno while Bruno was in best fighting years!
     
  12. William Walker

    William Walker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    just watched the tenth round of Lyle-Bugner. No knockdown; Bugner doesn't even slip or fall or anything of the kind.
     
  13. SerbianLoudmouth

    SerbianLoudmouth Overhand right-Suzie Q Full Member

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    Just watched fight he slipped twice,once was slip and once was KO!
    Lyle broke his nose and Bugner was all in blood!
    Even if you check record it would show the same thing!
     
  14. William Walker

    William Walker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    You don't know who Ron Lyle and Joe Bugner are then.
     
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  15. William Walker

    William Walker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    This is absolutely impossible swagdelfadeel.
     
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