Fireman Flynn KO 1 Jack Dempsey

Whatever EM...It still doesn't explain why Dempsey's wife
during divorce proceedings and bitterness between them would testify that Dempsey took a dive for food. ? This is what sways me that Jack took a dive...
EM, you are a cogent poster, so why is this fight before Dempsey
became DEMPSEY, is constantly brought up to show that he wasn't as great a fighter as his contemporaries thought him to be, whilst as I posted a Joey Giardello was ko'd by a fairly good Harold Green in Joey's 31st bout, with nary a disparaging word
to tarnish Giardello/s great MW legacy ? Not to knock Giardello who I saw several times ringside, BUT it seems to me that Jack Dempsey has a bullseye on his back mainly on ESB by a few
posters who target mainly him today whilst he cannot defend himself...Am I wrong EM ?

 

Dempsey was a great fighter,

and certainly if he was honestly KO'd by Flynn, it doesn't prove he wasn't a great fighter by any means. He improved, and other great fighters have sometimes been knocked out early in their careers. Mickey Walker is another who comes to mind. And Harry Greb.

As for Maxine, bitter ex-wives have been known to be less than truthful in scalding their former spouses. I don't accept her as a definitive witness.

The hard up evidence just isn't all that convincing to me, regardless of what Maxine said.

 

Based on various descriptions of the first bout between Fireman Jim Flynn and Jack Dempsey, I believe that Flynn's knockout victory in the first round was legitimate. There were many top fighters who sustained knockout losses early in their careers.

I still find it hard to believe that the first Flynn-Dempsey bout drew a gate of $5,000., a large amount of money for the time, even if it was according to one newspaper account of the bout.

- Chuck Johnston

 

That was widely discussed in the thread.

A ringside reporter did claim the attendance was in the thousands and the gate $5000.

I don't know what would be a better source. Two special trains bringing in fans from downstate points to a lot of interest.

 

If the word of a vindictive ***** is all it takes to sway you then you arent exactly steadfast. Maxine also said that Dempsey routinely used took cocaine before the first round of a fight which explained his early aggression and charge. She also said he was a woman beater. She also said he "broke" *****s for money and pimped her out. I could go on and on about all the things Maxine said that you would probably choose not to believe.

 

Didnt somebody post a picture of this venue which proved it would be highly unlikely to garner an attendance of even 1,000 much less a gate of $5,000? In 1917 an average ticket price of $1 for a fight between a has-been and a then mediocre prospect would have been stiff. Jump that up to $2 or $3 or even $5 (which would have been a lot of money) and its pretty hard to see them making that much. Promoters always lie about gates though.

 

The newspaper reports aren't going to tell us he went in the tank unless he made it obvious.

It might have been legit.
It might have been fake.
I don't see any reason to take a stance one way or the other. Allegations were made, and the people involved in the fight were not exactly clean.
On the other hand, people get caught cold and knocked out sometimes.
It's one or the other. Who knows. Who cares.

 

I haven't seen the photo.

The venue quibble makes sense, but it is the only one that seems to carry water.

The area certainly was populous enough for a couple of thousand people to attend an event.

"Promoters always lie"

No one will dispute that.

 

Do you believe those things ?

(I'm inclined to.)

 

I believe ex-wives will say a lot of things to make their ex-husbands look bad, true or not. I think you get into problems, and look ridiculous, if you pick and choose what to believe from someone as unreliable as Maxine Cates.

 

Yes, cocaine was illegal in 1917.

 

I've read 4 books on Dempsey, 2 of which were auto biographies and also most of the posts here,and I'm no nearer to knowing whether he went into the tank or not . I sincerely doubt I ever will be.

 

This sums it up for me too. :good

 

It wasn't as illegal then as now. The US government clamped down on it in 1914, but technically it wasn't outlawed. To possess it and use it certainly wasn't yet criminalised.

In the prizefighting world it was probably compulsory back then, like pimping.