Fireman Flynn KO 1 Jack Dempsey

It was certainly considered acceptable for a fighter to use it, in Jeffries day.

 

I would like to see a cross section of people who think this was fixed vs people who think Gans-McGovern was a fix.

 

Common sense dictates that...

 

On ESB, there is a vast difference by many posters who never criticize the great legacy of the Old Master Joe Gans, for being
ko'd by a FW Terry McGovern, whilst they rather clinically bring up the 1 round ko of Jack Dempsey by Jim Flynn as an indication
of Jack Dempsey's ineptness...Why one and not the other ?
Because Dempsey is a target by some posters that a Sigmund Freud could have explained, but alas he is dead...

 

Definitely.

Once you assert it one way or the other, you effectively assume the burden of proof, and that is going to be very hard to meet here.

 

There's actually very little proof for a lot of things in history that happened in the shadows.

For example, Al Capone and other giant almost mythical crime figures of the period : If you threw out all the rumours, innuendo, possible gross exaggerations, fabrications and legend, and relied only on proof, we'd probably be left with some modestly successful tax-dodgers who have very little to do with violence.

 

Al was a good guy, he gave away turkeys to the poor at Xmas

As did Don King.:good
I don't have any pressing need to find a solution to the original question ,either way it wouldn't change my ranking of Dempsey one iota.

 

ko1 both ways is a bit suspicious, but taking into account how dempsey fought and the progress of their careers they're not the most unlikely results for those fights.

the better argument's been made by the no fix camp, but i wouldn't come down solidly on either side.

 

U, I believe that is stretching the ****ogy a bit. Al Capone was no Mother Teresa for sure...

 

True, but on the other hand Joe Gans a ring immortal, was a lightweight great who had success against bigger greats like Joe Walcott and Jack Blackburn...The shocking ko of Gans the LW champ by FW McGovern in 1900 was comparable if say Roberto Duran would be flattened by the hard punching featherweight Sandy Saddler...Truly shocking...On the other hand who truly knows what occurred that day, but Terry McGovern at his best, before his disaster at the hands of his tormentor Young Corbett was as Nat Fleischer opined the greatest FW in history...
But like Dempsey/Flynn #1, Jake LaMotta/ Billy Fox, Ali/ Liston
the real truth lies hidden...

 

I don't whether pigs are about to fly past my window but I'm quite happy to assume they aren't.

 

Nor was Mother Teresa, probably ....

 

Yes but you have never seen a pig fly, nor read any documented account of one flying, and have good reason to believe that it would be physically impossible for them to fly.

These factors constrain your prediction somewhat.

When it comes to the question of whether Jack Dempsey took a dive against Fireman Flynn, both answers are very compatible with the limited known evidence.

 

What evidence is there that Dempsey took a dive? The word of one or two Dempsey sycophants nearly a decade after the events trying to make him look better, which Dempsey himself refuted? Thats pretty thin when the light of the actual ringside accounts illuminates the subject.

Basically the only evidence that Dempsey took a dive is fanboys who dont want to believe it saying "Dempsey was super tough, Jim Flynn could have never stopped him."