First time I saw Jimmy Young at MSG, I thought he was garbage

Alan Minter springs to mind...he had a few bad losses before he hit a purple patch and won the 160lb titles.

 

Prince Charles Williams and Johnny Nelson are great examples of this.

 

The thing with Young was he was at that Frazier gym back then. And the Frazier camp was not known as a softie type camp by any means. Anyone lasting during that timeframe had to have some skills just to survive.

The bout that put Jimmy on the map was the first Lyle bout, which I've yet to see. Heard about it & it was a big big upset at the time. their seconds bout really did show
those Young reflexes and man, that guy was hard to hit clean. In recent boxing times, the Lyle camp would've never accepted those matches and fought a ponderous face first guy instead. And lottery ticket odds chances of a rematch.

Speaking of Weaver--did you ever see his Oliver Phillips bout he had just prior to that Holmes fight? I thought the guy was about a 50-1 shot and actually you could not place a bet on the Holmes-Weaver fight. It was expected to be a rematch and Oliver did better in the early rounds than Holmes did, which was surprising.

Mike Weaver rising to the top elite was pretty much on par with what Young did and really came out of nowhere. It shows that some guys do elevate their game when they do finally get an opportunity and from time to time guys raise their game and stay there and you just don't see it coming. Especially guys like Weaver and Young that were not house fighters or had any big promotions or money behind them.

It's a good thing Mike didn't fight Young in that 78 timeframe because he would've been countered to death and would not land his slow punches against that guy.

 

Up until 1975,Young seemed very ordinary. After he beat Lyle though,he really came into his own. I've often said that if he'd had a third fight with Earnie Shavers,he'd probably have scored a shutout decision.

 

Good thread but it's a matter of consistent training, financial backing and stylistic match ups ... Young was made to defeat a slower guy like Lyle but he was never beating a fast, volume puncher ... he couldn't even handle Ozzie ...Weaver could give many guys hell but against big punchers like a Foreman or a Bonecrusher he was going to get iced early ...

 

Kind of amazing...and unique how Young started out so unspectaular and ordinary and then developed into what he became...and then lost it all again after the disappointment vs Norton..

 

True...he would have just outclassed Earnie.

 

Who did he go on to beat though ? It's only Lyle and Foreman really.

The losses to Ali and Norton were controversial, but that's probably the worse version of Ali ever up to the Holmes fight and Young's performance was hardly spectacular. Young-Norton was close, certainly no robbery.

 

A lot in what you say. Prior to the Holmes fight though,I think Muhammad's performances against Evangelista and Spinks 1,were as bad as the Young one. I agree that the Young - Norton fight was close,but Jimmy was probably the sixth best heavyweight in that golden decade of the seventies,imo.

 

In early 1969, while still an amateur, Jimmy sparred with Leotis Martin.
A couple of months later, Martin KO'd Sonny Liston in Las Vegas.
At that time, Jimmy was only 21 years old, and 190 lbs. (soaking wet).
During the several sparring sessions in Philly, Jimmy gave Leotis fits.
Jimmy would never open up offensively, and then would counter-punch Leotis silly.

Considered a 'stylist', more than a boxer. No one thought much of him,
when entering the 'Pro Ranks'.
One of his earliest 'important' wins. A 1973 decision win over a 'pretty good at the time' Obie English, who was
8-1-0. In a battle of young Philadelphia Heavyweights, Jimmy overcame a slow first half of the fight, to counter-punch Obie in Rounds 4-5-6, before opening up offensively in Rounds 7 and 8, to upset the 'favored' English.
The reason that fight was so important. 2 months earlier Jimmy was crushed (KO'd) by Earnie Shavers, dropping
his record to 7-4-0 (2 KO's). He needed a victory over a decent opponenet, to prevent from falling into
Boxing Oblivion. A loss to English, may have sealed his fate.

I still believe he won the title fight over Ali. I have played that fight over and over, and still have Jimmy winning the fight in rounds (6 to 5 with 4 even)
Up to that point, 'no one' had ever made Ali look like an 'ass' in the ring.
Jimmy did, even laughing at Ali's pathetic dancing in Round 11.
Check out Rounds 8 thru 12, and it is difficult to see Ali control anyone of them.
If anyone ever deserved a re-match, it was Jimmy Young.
pc

 

Another guy I who I remember looked terrible early on was Buster Douglas. I saw him on a cable fight - not sure who he fought - and he just looked awful to me. The only reason I remembered watching him was because he was Billy Douglas' son. I was blown away a couple years later by the improvement he showed vs. Tony Tucker.

 

Yet another example: Steve Robinson. He was a total journeyman for his first 20 fights or so, then became a substitute title challenger... And then his career just kicked off. He kept on winning and winning, even as he faced boxers who he was supposed to lose against. Eventually, he faced a bridge too far in the form of Naseem Hamed, but for a few years he managed to prove the pundits wrong time after time.

Like Young, he had a good defence and could counter-punch well. Also, like Young, he didn't have much power (and for his weight, Robinson wasn't that fast) but at his peak he always found ways to win, except when facing someone who had every edge like Hamed.

 

Jimmy Young's first loss was to Clay Hodges in San Diego, California.
In April 1970.
After 2 quick wins, to start his career, his manager foolishly took a fight
with Hodges, on his home turf in San Diego.
Just who was Clay Hodges, a 1-0 fighter, but he was a Top ranking amateur in 1969,
who beat George Foreman not once, but twice in 1968.
Clay a tall and gangling 6' 3" 199 lb fighter, won 5 of the 6 rounds.