Fitzimmons v Foster

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by McGrain, Jun 18, 2007.



  1. JimmyShimmy

    JimmyShimmy 1050 psi Full Member

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    You noobs,

    Fitzsimmons was a boxing demi-god. One of the greatest greats whose craft in the ring was entirely unique and would prove effective in all eras.

    Forget what you think you know about the Fighting Blacksmith and understand this guy absorbed the bombs from Choynski and Jeffries. He was tough, tough, tough. He could fight conserved ala Corbett and Gardner, or he could come out steaming like he did against most of his victims - Nonpareil, Hall, Sharkey, Maher, and Ruhlin.

    Fitzsimmons had his hands low, leaned back - sure that's what his opponents thought, then they learned that his ability to move just out of the reach of blows and time his counters was superb.

    With both hands Fitzsimmons was fond of looping haymakers or short pile-drivers. Either way you were gonna taste his hooks of doom. Fitz has too much experience, know-how, and toughness for a generic boxer in comparison in Foster.

    Foster would jab, Fitz would catch his glove, Foster would step into what looks like and open target and get planted. Period. That is how the fight would go.
     
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  2. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Ali was a technical rebel who relied on athleticism that has never been seen before or since in the HW division. He is the exception that proves the norm.

    Fitzsimmons had considerable power... but could not approach the physical genious that was Ali.

    Show me a trainer who teaches prospects to carry their hands low and I will show you a fool. "Keep your hands up" is the single most common exhortation that any trainer gives young boxers.

    Leaning back is not encouraged either. It inhibits your ability to punch, it leaves you susceptible to the opponent's stepping in and punching.

    Fitz raised his guard when being attacked to the head. Toddlers put their hands up when falling. You call that skill? I call it basic instinct.

    I have yet to see a fighter operating before 1920 whose style was not comparatively simple. Some of this is attributable to the fact that boxing was really a different sport back then -longer rounds, smaller gloves, no standing 8, the wrestling factor, etc. but it is also attributable to the evolution of skill. Things progress. Expertise improves. Efficiency increases with time. If this were not true, we would all be in Model Ts, and worrying about polio.

    As a pioneer, we are all in debt to Corbett. But objectively speaking, I am as impressed with his skill as I am with his choice of trunks. And that ain't much.

    Again, for his time, Corbett was a tactical wizard. He found that mobility helped him tame one-dimensional sluggers. Boxing advanced far beyond him. Anyone who argues that Corbett would defeat Joe Louis drinks too much but that does not mean that Louis is not in his debt. This is rational expectation, but it is not without exception.

    Ruby Bob was KOd inside of a few rounds 3 times. Foster punched faster and shorter than anyone he ever faced.
     
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  3. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Jimmy, take a hardcopy of your avatar and place it horizontally on the floor. Meditate on it and accept it.

    What's a noob?
     
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  4. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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  5. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    ... yes, but one cannot skirt the basics unless one has something in place that allows this. Usually that something is great athleticism. Superior reflexes allow for more risks to be taken but to argue that fighters should neglect tried-and-true technique is absurd.
     
  6. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Fighters like Ali who can fight with their hands at their side and not get hit are a bit of an anomaly but they do crop up from time to time. Examples include Dixie Kid, Jimmy Wilde and Jimmy Slatterey.

    Boxing manuals at the turn of the century recomend a low guard so that the hand can be used to protect against punches to the head and body with equal rapidity. this makes sense since body punches were far more efective with the smaller gloves and therfore used more extensively.

    Fighters like Jim Corbett, Dixie Kid and Jimmy Wilde were regarded as mavericks in their day but their critics had to acknowledge the results they got with their unorthodox stances.
     
  7. C. M. Clay II

    C. M. Clay II Manassah's finest! Full Member

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    :rofl
     
  8. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member Full Member

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    :D
     
  9. JimmyShimmy

    JimmyShimmy 1050 psi Full Member

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    I don't think so Mr. Poopy pants. You have just exposed your stance on this matter in your previous post.

    You casually generalise and stereotype. If confronted on the real developments of pugilism through the 19th century your memory would prove as hazy and informal as the spammed books that fuelled you with this all too common train of thought in the first place.

    I'm multi-dimensional in this region. I used to be thee most sceptical guy ever when it concerned the oldies, so I became thee most curious guy ever, trying to match-up the praise with the available material. The more you chip away at their legacy you see how much poop books and casual fans talk.

    I know all about the lanky and dangerous Foster with his whipping hooks. The man was a killer. However, using my superior observational skills, I'd say I know an average of 80% more about Fitzsimmons style and ability than 90% of the guilty contributors. I edit that film, and understand that style.

    I see an exciting fight. I see Foster getting countered into the ground. Toughness is at a big disparity here. Fitz had double grit and was awesome at figuring you out.

    Quite...
     
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  10. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    As do I with modern mavericks like Pryor and Jones. Nevertheless... there is danger lurking there.
     
  11. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I am impervious to your verbalistics. Your attempts to undermine valid arguments with uninformed declarations about the speaker of the argument are easily parried.

    You are guilty of reaching hasty conclusions about my objectivity and stance. Such languid condemnations would be stronger if you had a more representative sample of my views on the pugilists of the late 19th/early 20th century. You don't and you haven't bothered to ask.
    Your open-mind and meticulous research habits amended your appreciation for Ruby Bob and that is fine... but you should extend that same fair-mindedness before drawing the kind of conclusion you have here. You haven't and now you force me to question whether this carelessness has made your analysis of Fitzsimmons impugnable.

    To wit: your assertion that "Demigod" Bob was "the hardest puncher ever". This is less indicative of superior observational skills and more indicative of blind idolatry. Don't feel lonely. I have wrestled with same inclination about the great Poopy-pants himself.

    For the record, I am of the view that these were pioneers and provided the foundation for the ring generalship that peaked in the 1940s and 50s. I see the strategy and have controlled for the differences between boxing then and boxing now. After fair-minded deliberation, I have arrived at the conclusion -albeit a subjective one, that the pioneers were pioneers. Their level of skill -efficient punching, combinations, countering, sound defense, angles, etc., had not developed to the levels that it would later...

    And this is to be expected. Human endeavors improve with repetition and history builds upon itself.

    Aside from the puncher's chance, I don't believe that Fitzsimmons would take Foster anymore than I believe that Roosevelt's Rough Riders would defeat Navy Seals.
     
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  12. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Fitzsimmons would win easy, Ruby Bob took punches from heavyweights and was a genuie life taker.

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  13. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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  14. Reinhardt

    Reinhardt Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Fitz was a great fighter and one helluva threat but, I agree with your assessment about styles. Fosters jab would I feel rule the day against Fitz's style.
     
  15. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    No "Gingers" (or soul-less daywalkers) beat Bob Foster.

    Not Fitz. Not Canelo.

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