Fitzsimmons Against Todays Heavys

I would tend to agree.

As a finisher Fitzsimmons isnt just among the best middleweights of all time, he is still to this day in the company of the best heavyweights.

I dont expect everybody to acept this statment without question, but the more they learn about him the closer they will come to this position.

 

Fitz was a crafty boxer that set up his punches well, often luring his opponents to maximize his shots, kinda like Archie Moore. I think based on boxing skill alone, Fitzsimmons could whup a lot of the heavyweights today. His weakness is his lack of pure power, compared to the heavyweights of today. For those who don't think conditioning would be a factor, think again. Fitz has more stamina than a lot of the heavyweight boxers today. In fact, most if not all of the old time fighters would outlast todays heavyweights in terms of endurance. Fitz fought in a era when fifteen rounds was the absolute minimum duration of a boxing contest.

 

Fitz DOES have pure power, he ko both Tom Sharkey and Jim Corbett(Among other people) with 1 punch.

 

Sharkey was 5'8 173lb and Corbett was 185lb, These were also BODY shots. Alot different than head shots

 

Fitz weighed 167 when he beat Corbett. This is just three pounds less than Mike Spinks weighed when he knocked out David Sears in his penultimate light heavyweight title defense. Should we make the automatic assumption that the lighter, younger and faster version of Michael would have been taken out by the jaded versions of Holmes and Cooney he eventually did take on?

An old, fat and slow version of Qawi managed to steal some rounds from the mature Foreman, a superheavyweight if ever there was one. Would the light heavyweight edition of Qawi who dethroned Saad Muhammad have fared more poorly against the aged George who made the ill conditioned Dwight quit? James Toney's competitiveness as a fat old 5'8" superheavyweight is obviously not a reflection of how he would have done against the same competition at his best competitive weight in his twenties. Is it reasonable to automatically assume that the lighter, younger and better conditioned version of Toney would have fared much more poorly against the exact same opposition, simply by virtue of being younger, lighter, faster and better conditioned?

I'm not suggesting that somebody the size of Tommy Burns, Langford or Fitz would be a great champion in the superheavyweight division today, just that somebody that size was not necessarily too small to enjoy some competitive success potentially.

When it comes to taking a punch, keep in mind that today's superheavyweights punch with gloves that would seem like pillows to the champions of antiquity. The main difference between former middleweight titlist Fitz and former MW kingpins RJJ and Toney is that Fitz didn't shoot steroids or let himself turn into a pig.

 

Toney would have less muscle mass and power and stronger and a better chin that at 160-168, he would probably have been optimal around 180-190 if he had stayed dedicated

 

I can buy that. I get the impression that he might have been underweight at 160-168. (What do you consider to be his best performance?)

 

He loses against any decent contender.

It's a different story at SMW or LHW, though.

 

I think Fitz would be knocked all over the place.


First of all, he'd be facing heavyweights that naturally weigh (far) over 200 pounds instead of fat bums like Dunkhorst.

Second, his style is completely outdated. And that is nothing against Fitz: if you'd put modern fighters in with him, they'd probably lose as well. But boxing was a totally different game back then. Max Kellerman would probably get turned on by those thongs they used to wear, though that would end as soon as he finds out that Fitz is not from "the hood" like all fighters he sucks up to.

 

It was a other game, I think Fitz loses in THIS era. But as Chris said, put the fighters in Fitz's era, outside hot arenas, THONGS, small gloves, Refs not breaking up clinchings, or refs not stopping a fight no matter how bad the cut was, It might be other ball game in Fitz's favor.

 

Well, I'd have to consider seperately wether Fitzsimmons is here today: is it via time machine, or is he getting born 115 years later?
Time-machined Bob would have a nice chance of being a champion at near his weight -- read Pollack, there's no question he could have made Jr. Middle -- and even pose danger for good cruisers.
Bob coming along in our time could be a heavyweight champion if he met the right defender.
If anything, I'm estimating conservatively.

 

was fitzimmons forced to fight with ten ounce gloves????

 

FYI, Fitz Ko'd Shakrey with one big right to the head in the 2nd match, and Ruhlin the same. By the way the 1900 Ruhlin vs Fitz fight was filmed and according to what I read came out clear. Fitz looked great in the match.

To say Fitz had had lethal power was an understatement. He killed three men with gloves, two in a real match, one in sparing session.

Boxing masters such as Joe Gans would work for free in Fitz camp just to pick up on some of the stuff he knew. The oral secrets of boxing passed down by Jim Mace hismelf. If you get a chance read the Fitz manual posted by Cross_Trainer.