Fitzsimmons Middleweight losses

i said what i said just to mark that fitz didn't beat heavys when he was a 'heavy'. corbett was 184 against him with no diet and dehydration. that is smw or a really small lhw for you. fitz never was a 'heavy' or beaten such. so that puts his p4p greatness in true proportions. start comparing him to mw , smw .no cruisers no lightheavys , jeffries himself could have been a cruiser. orlin noris and vassily jirov were 230 when they were havies.
i think also al cole and juan carlos gomez.
no heavies back then. cruisers at the most. fitz was a mw and no more.
so was his oposition except jeffries.

 

I doubt Jeffries could have made cruiser, he used to sweat himself down to whatever he weighed, and he used to starve himself down to get as light as possible. He was a hugely built man.

I guess we could go extreme and say Ali, Foreman, Norton and Frazier were cruisers too, if Jeffries was. Anyone, who cares ? Most of the current cruisers could probably give most of the current heavyweights a beating. What's Chis Arreola ? A fat middleweight, probably.

 

sorry , but in 5 fights wlad would outpoint foreman in 3 , stop him in 1 and get stopped in 1. something like 4(1):1(1) or 3(1):2(2)
vitali something like 4(2):1(0) or 4(2):1(1) .
there is a limit to the amount of super heavy jabs , straights , and opurtunistic hooks and uppercuts that a man can take over 12 rounds , even big fat george.
foreman would also may be given fits by tucker , bowe .
i consider lewis a fav against him also.
foreman was better only against smaller oposition.
you saw the holyfield fight. now think what an angerred valuev / vitali klitschko could have done. i think valuev simply doesn't want to kill nobody , but after 'big' george enrages him , valuev blasts him.
ali was not picky , but the 70's heavies are too hyped. few of them were good , fewer even better. but it was not such a great era as the catholic church here has determined.

 

i really doubt what you say here about jeffries. heavies don't have to do such things - weight limit. starvation and dehydration would have weaken him. i don't believe it.

maybe foreman was a small heavy / big cruiser . remember that ali made 178 when he was 18. so of course he could have made 200 anytime if dieting properly and i really not mean starvation.
about arreola i won't go that far but he is a fat cruiser.

 

They engaged in somewhat stupid training methods back then. Jeffries was doing huge volumes of aerobic work to get his weight down--long runs followed by 10+ rounds of sparring followed by about half an hour of medicine ball work followed by bagwork followed by wrestling.

Read the contemporary training manuals if you don't believe Unforgiven about their dieting and "sweating" before a fight. Most of them are still on Google Books.

 

that sounds convincing.
so maybe jeffries was a real shw , but a really small such.
now i'm not sure that foreman was dryly heavier.
still jeffries didn't dehydrate himself before fights. if he did , he surely could have made less than 210 till the end of his career.
and part of his career , at least until age 23 he was a cruiser.

 

has any body tried to get newspaper article of this fight

does any one know where it happened? in the article it mentioned behing what i presumed was a pub

 

Valuev? To K.O Big George???? You gotta be kiddin me

 

:think

True, but by that token Lennox Lewis would also be a cruiserweight. Picture him without the benefit of weights and with massive aerobic training. If you gave them equivalent training, Jeffries would probably be as heavy or heavier than most modern "super"heavies.

 

Don't worry, like Boilermaker he's ****in clueless

 

Oh, and as to dehydration...

From: Ethics of Boxing and Manly Sport, James Boyle O'Reilly, 1890's.

 

So perhaps Corbett couldn't make lightheavyweight. Heck, with proper hydration (even leaving aside all the other modern advances) he might be close to the cruiserweight limit.

 

that only emphasizes the needlessness of a shw division when weights are taken enough time before fights to allow dehydration , etc.
if weigh-ins will occur just before fights like some propose then we do need a shw division above a 220 /225/230 lower limit.

 

I've always believed that the weigh-in should be in the ring. The amount of dehydration they engage in can't be healthy.

 

i didn't understand that long article or whatever it is. but i just know that toney weighed 183 or 184 the night he lost his 168 belt for roy jones.
so why couldn't corbett make 175 if toney made 168 ?
and toney's fat percentage at that night was presumably more than corbett's and it doesn't fall on dehydration.