Five Frazier Missed As Champ

First Frazier did fight Foreman in Jan 73. He signed to fight him Oct 72.

By oct 72 Norton was only known on the west coast. The fight that put him in the top 10 (Clark) did not occur until after Frazier signed to fight Foreman.

Lyle entered the top ten after Frazier signed to fight Foreman or there abouts.

Liston was black balled after losing to Ali in Lewiston...he was not getting a title shot no matter who was champion.

He could have fought Garcia or Foster but let's get real here. He had come off a life or death struggle with Ali and why not get a few soft touches under his belt?

 

Terrell and Patterson would have been my choices. They had both reestablished themselves with good win streaks, both credible names and neither would have beaten Joe. He would have done himself a world of good to have defended against these two rather than Daniels and Stander.

 

Come on, Floyd's most notable win post 1970 was Bonavena, that doesn't really count as reestablishing himself. He did won a decision over Daniels, but even though both Daniels and Stander weren't really worthy of a title shot, Floyd wasn't much of a solid contender either around that time. Sure, maybe Joe's reign as a champion would look slightly better with Patterson and Terrell on his resume, but I can't really blame the guy for taking the easy way for a short period after FOTC.

 

He was the world champion, there are no days off. Ali had fought Jimmy Ellis, Buster Mathis and Jurgen Blin before Frazier fought the first bum. And Patterson did reestablish himself. At the end of '71 he was ranked 7th and by the end of '72 - even though he had retired unofficially - he held a #5 ranking. And no where amidst the top ten did you see Daniels or Stander. Again, Terrell and Patterson would have been the most viable for Frazier to fight, but he was having too much fun with his group The Knockouts and his title was stagnating.

 

Mac Foster and Jose Garcia don't stand a chance. Liston was past prime and even if he wasnt he'd get stopped in an exciting fight. Ron Lyle gives him a tough fight and may even last the distance. Norton knew him well and sparred him more than a few times, I'd favor Frazier by decision or late round stoppage.

What about Patterson between 1968-1970? Id go with Frazier by stoppage.

 

Terrell? Now that might be interesting. Ill take Frazier by close decision due to Terrell's ability to use his height and reach advantages, his chin, and his ability to tie people up. Terrell's offense would not be enough though.

 

Ali himself has some title defenses against unranked opponents, and he's not the only one to do so, neither is Joe. It's not a good thing for the sport, but it does happen. Now, rankings can be deceiving and Floyd was nowhere near reestablishing himself.

 

Look, Garcia is easy to overlook but the guy could really hit and was explosive .. however pre Superfight 1 , Frazier was always in shape and nasty ... unlike Norton no lucky shot would take him out and he was impossible to scare ..

 

Up to 1971 Frazier was unbeatable by any of them. Frazier left a piece of himself in the ring with Ali in The Fight, for neither was ever the same again. Frazier was still a very good fighter, but more vulnerable thereafter. I still think he probably beats them all anyhow, even post 71, but there is more of an aura of the possibility of defeat. But on top of his game the way he was from 69-71, when he was an absolutely razor sharp bad-ass, with hand-speed, fast attacking footwork that worked beautifully well in conjunction with his head movement, the amazingly well-conditioned non stop pressure with crisp punching to the body and head, well, not too many in history could have dealt with that.

 

I had Floyd the winner of his 1968 WBA Title shot against Jimmy Ellis in Stockholm, and am convinced that two impartial ringside judges would have overruled referee Harold Valan's 9-6 card in favor of Ellis, to make Floyd the HW division's first three time champion.

My suspicion is that a newly recrowned Patterson would have immediately felt honor bound to make his first defense against Sonny in early or mid 1969. While it's my conviction that the younger, yet now much more experienced and wiser, better conditioned Floyd would have dramatically reversed the tide of history, as he did nearly a decade earlier against Ingo, to stop Liston in the championship rounds, a repeat of what happened between them in 1962 and 1963 certainly cannot be ruled out.

Joe Frazier's NYSAC recognition was minority status, compared to the WBA brand. For Smoke to attain universal acceptance, he had to compete against whoever the WBA HW Champion was. It happened to be Ellis, but as I've stated, I think it should have been the victor of Patterson's first WBA title defense. A decision by Valan in favor of Floyd over Jimmy may well have abruptly placed Liston on the fast track to a collision course with Frazier in Joe's peak years of 1969 and 1970.

 

Trying to say, "Oh, it does happen." and then in the same breath denying Patterson, who had reestablished himself by winning 9 straight including wins over Bonavena and a wide decision over your man Daniels while attaining a ranking in the top 5 of Ring Magazine, is simply contradictory. You try to give Joe a pass by saying he was in the FOTC and I'm saying Ali came out of the same fight and proceeded to do Joe's job by taking on top dogs. The question posed here is 5 who Frazier missed and I name Patterson and Terrell as two of them. And to be clear, while Joe was off licking his wounds that you give a pass to, Patterson fought 6 times that same year, regaining match sharpness, regaining his rating, thus reestablishing himself.

 

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