Five points about Penn vs Diaz...

Discussion in 'MMA Forum' started by horst, Nov 1, 2011.


  1. horst

    horst Guest

    I'm being as brief as possible here, hence the bullet-points.


    - I don't think the fight was quite as one-sided as it was made out to be. Round 2 was a beatdown, but round 3 wasn't, Diaz definitely won the 3rd but it was just a standard, competitive 10-9 with good punches landed from either guy, just the more frequency from Diaz. I had it 29-28 Diaz, and thought it was a cracking fight, really enjoyed it even though it hurt me to see BJ getting hurt like he was in the 2nd. Still, the Hawaiian's chin and his determination were just awesome to witness.

    - I am a Nick Diaz fan and have been for a few years now, but it may surprise you to learn that I wasn't really all that impressed with his performance. To me, it looked like BJ was outclassing Nick until his just straight-up weak gas-tank made the fight a non-event. It seemed like Nick merely outlasted BJ, only taking control of the fight once Penn was standing sucking in air and unable to move or retaliate like he was in the 1st. And even then, after BJ had been really put to the sword in the 2nd, I thought he still managed to make Nick's defence look sloppy in that last round and clip him with some lovely flush shots down the stretch. Still, credit where it's due, Nick's cardio, bodypunching and chin were all typically fantastic, he now has the big UFC win he needed and I'm glad.

    - Why oh why oh why hasn't BJ Penn just put in more effort with his cardio and conditioning in his career?! As a really big fan of his, I just can't understand why someone who loves fighting has continually put himself in a highly disadvantaged position in big fights by turning up flabby and then visibly gassing. It's not as if BJ had some natural cardio weakness, because for example in the Diego Sanchez fight, he easily coped with a known cardio machine attempting to take him down relentlessly and stopped him in the 5th round. I'll never understand why sometimes he just didn't come to the Octagon in the best shape possible, like guys like Diaz and GSP do every time.

    - I'm really glad that GSP vs Diaz is now happening, and I'm so looking forward to this fight. Diaz needs to sharpen up IMO, because GSP will not stand against the cage exhausted and just allow Diaz to rattle off multi-punch combinations with no care for defence. But I still believe Nick has the right attributes to really, really trouble GSP. GSP is no longer the same guy of 2007-2009 whose bad intentions made serious messes of Hughes, Serra, Fitch and Penn. He is far more cautious and far less incisive now, and we all saw how badly he reacted to suffering a damaged eye in the Jake Shields fight. Even though GSP is significantly stronger than Diaz IMO, Diaz can mark him up and hurt him with vicious, busy activity from the bottom, and I don't think there's any realistic chance of GSP submitting Nick. Wherever this fight goes, I see it being close and pretty dangerous for Georges.

    - BJ Penn is the reason I started watching MMA seriously, he is my all-time favourite fighter, in my opinion he is a UFC Hall Of Famer, a top 5 ATG, and one of the very best fighters ever in terms of ability at his fighting peak. I am glad he has retired, because a Penn bereft of stamina shouldn't be fighting much bigger, fitter men like Diaz and Fitch anymore. He has absolutely nothing left to prove, his ability can never be in doubt, and I salute the great man and say thank you so much for all the great nights and great fights.

    :bbb
     
  2. Ai-edy2007

    Ai-edy2007 STOCKTON 209 MOTHER****ER Full Member

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    shot popkins but yea didnt i tell everyone that my boy nikc diaz would win?
     
  3. Beouche

    Beouche Juan Manuel Marquez Full Member

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    agree with a lot of that. BJ is definitely a class or two above Diaz, but that can all fall to pieces if you dont get the guy outta there before your gas runs out

    BJ lost cause he's basically a ridiculously talented lazy turd

    Diaz won cause he's basically hard as nails and utterly irrepressible


    Hope your enjoying Japan man :good
     
  4. Ai-edy2007

    Ai-edy2007 STOCKTON 209 MOTHER****ER Full Member

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    +2222 shot bro i think bj penn needed to definetly work on is gas tank. But my boy nick is a beast. :happy
     
  5. horst

    horst Guest

    I dunno, did you? I think many people did. I tipped BJ on points, but expected a close, gruelling fight.
     
  6. horst

    horst Guest

    I'm back now :good
     
  7. Ai-edy2007

    Ai-edy2007 STOCKTON 209 MOTHER****ER Full Member

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    haha funny bro im pretty sure you and 90% of ESB were rooting for bj to win so dont even front man.
     
  8. Will Cooling

    Will Cooling Boxing Addict Full Member

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    BJ fought the wrong fight. Better conditioned men than him have been worn down by Diaz's Calzaghe-esque tactics. He should have committed to the takedowns and looked to own Nick on the ground. But you could see that he wasn't sold on the idea of taking Nick down, instead wanting to stand and trade with him.
     
  9. horst

    horst Guest

    Of course I would have preferred BJ to win, I have never ever made a secret of that. I'm a big Nick Diaz fan, but BJ is(was) my favourite fighter. If anyone had to beat him into retirement, I'm glad it was Nick.
     
  10. mckay_89

    mckay_89 Haw you! Full Member

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    I don't think the first was as clear a BJ round as many are making it out to be. Yeah, I gave it to him, but it wasn't the clinic some have been describing it as.

    Also, BJ did gas, but people don't seem to be giving Diaz the credit for making him gas.

    Nick was pushing forward relentlessly, pinning him against the cage and firing off some nice body shots which was the cause of BJ draining so quickly.

    I agree that BJ is the more naturally talented fighter, ****, he might be the most naturally talented fighter ever, but I don't think it's as simple as saying 'The 2006 version of Penn beats this version of Diaz' (I know you didn't say that in your post Popkins but I've seen a few people mentioning this since the fight). In my opinion the 2006 BJ beats Diaz over 3 rounds, but Nick would always have taken a 5 round fight.
     
  11. BewareofDawg

    BewareofDawg P4P Champ Full Member

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    Well what the hell is up with his trainers and coaches??? A guy like BJ really needs to be training with either a big camp like AKA or Jackson, or he needs a guy like Alex Ariza.
     
  12. BewareofDawg

    BewareofDawg P4P Champ Full Member

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    The truth is, BJ loooked like dog**** at the weigh-in, he looked like he was literally about to cry on his walk to the ring, then he gassed after 5 rounds of boxing and about 20 seconds of grappling. The dude should retire. If he ever fights again, he needs somebody who doesn't idolize him to train him in cardio, that's it.
     
  13. achillesthegreat

    achillesthegreat FORTUNE FAVOURS THE BRAVE Full Member

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    Penn was at a huge size disadvantage but showed in the first round that he could tool him. Penn is another level of talent compared to Diaz but one thing seperated the fight. Diaz is a 5 round fighter, Penn is barely a 1 round fighter. He gassed and got ****ed up. If Penn trained like GSP and Diaz then he could beat Diaz and maybe even GSP. But he has spent a whole career not fufilling his true potential.

    Will Diaz have this same luxury vs GSP, I doubt it. I expect GSP to potshot him and time his takedowns. A 5 round decision is imminent though Diaz can be busted up if GSP grows a pair.
     
  14. It looks like the Penn has run out of ink. I made that joke up myself.

    :rofl:happy:vonnecunt:censored:hammertime:****off:bananamaniac:dunnowha::eek:tta:grouphug
     
  15. MetalMandible

    MetalMandible Chinchecker Full Member

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    Thank you Popkins for reiterating the points that I made about conditioning being the determining factor and for reinforcing the fact that Penn's boxing, as you and I said before the fight, was indeed superior. The first round was indicative of the disparity in skill and the latter two were reflective of the even wider gap in cardio.

    Diaz is an imminently watchable fighter but his boxing skill is vastly overrated and I'm astonished at the number of so-called boxing fans on this forum that can't see that his hands are sloppiness incarnate.