Fixing Monte Cox`s All Time Heavyweight Ratings

Taller, longer? :huh
He said they were equal in athleticism and skill,I would give the edge to Johnson in power, speed to Ali so those are cancelled out.
Again I repeat ,NO LPR fighters in Callis's top ten.

Are you going to answer the question I put to you, or duck it once again? How do you reconcile your own opinion with the two I mentioned?

 

Who did Johnson ever stop to prove he was a harder hitter than Ali?

(Jeffries was after a 6 year lay off, and he had to shed off 110 pounds. Foreman >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jeffries win)

 

Cox is a huge dempsey ballwasher. That said, I do like and appreciate most of his work. When it comes to Dempsey though, he has the homer glasses on.

 

Too many things to comment on.

As I said you could compare the two in terms of athleticism in some areas such as coordination and hand speed, though I think Ali had faster hands.

Johnson reach was only 74". Ali's about 80". Huge difference here. Ali also taller, and had much better foot speed. And his chin was better by a mile. And he beat better competition as champion by a mile.

As stated there is a big difference between #2 and #10 on lists. I will give Cox credit, it was only after review, possibly from some of my points that he lowered Johnson's standing, but the points given were with respect.

You give the edge to Johnson in power? I do not. Ali had a pretty good right hand, and KO'd far better fighters.

Very few London guys were top level glove guys. The only one at heavy who could be top ten is Sullivan for Callis. Callis places Sullivan at #7 under his cruiser weight ratings.

How do I reconcile? I chat with both guys, and few IBRO via email from time to time. Almost all of them have " graduated " from boxing forum talk, and see little value posting, though they will read from time to time.

Cox is a good writer, and understand styles and film. Callis partly due to his age has the oral history of boxing that few have. The the conversations are private, so don't ask for details. Sometimes we trade photos or films for free.

I will say this. Some historians in private do not 100% agree with what they say in print. They only say it to be part of the pack. This is where I disagree with them. I say what I think. The funny part is in private some agree that Klitschko would crush Jack Johnson...they just don't want to admit it to ruffle feathers.

 

Why wouldn't they want to share their knowledge?

Mother****ers keeping knowledge down.

Same with people not wanting to put old fights on youtube, all a bunch of ****ers.
Why keep it to yourself and make just you happy or share it with thousands who would be just as happy with it.

 

You need to do some research on Jeffries he was down to weight a year before his comeback.
In answer to your question, Sam McVey?

 

It was not only athleticism it was a parity in SKILL
We are discussing HEAVYWEIGHT RATINGS Callis does NOT have any LPR boxers in his top ten, thats three times I've told you.
Why would I want to know what you say in conversations with other people?

I know what Kevin Smith thinks of you.

You are a historian?atsch

Why would you mention corresponding with IBRO members, is it supposed to impress me?
The only qualification you need to be a member of the IBRO is $63 , or $90 if you are outside the US.

BTW. The IBRO has Johnson at no3 alltime heavy just behind Louis and Ali.


Now I'll tell you what I think from what I have read of Monte Cox ,and Tracy Callis. I think they are no more qualified to give an opinion on those boxers than the average keen boxing fan.
Cox's work ,or what I have read of it has several inaccuracies in it, and Callis is not above repeating old accepted stories that have since been disproved.
They write interesting articles ,but I give them no special credence or reverence.
I'll say this though , they are both streets ahead of that joke whom you quoted Dan McCaffery, he really is a buffoon.

 

graduated from boxing forum talk

 

Rocky Marciano's endurance not at 10? What's up with that.

 

He's a ****.

 

Do we have a definitive fight ledger for McVey when he faced Johnson? I know boxrec gives him only a handful of fights. There were probably a few more but he was still only 19. Johnson was 26. Furthermore, watching McVey on film leaves a lot to be desired. A lot. I can't buy the argument that it's just a bad representation of him.

 

Adam Pollack says McVey had more fights than he is credited with, how many, we don't know.
As far as can be ascertained he was undefeated until Johnson beat him 3 out of 3 .McVey was very durable ,which was why I chose him as my asked for example.

 

http://www.boxingforum24.com/showthread.php?t=426188

here is a link to a thread which discusses quite a few of McVey's unrecorded early fights, I think he had at least ten or so solid fights before his pro debut (according to CBZ) I think you would probably find he has enough unrecorded fights to place him, resume wise, on a par or better than most of todays top 10s on those early fights alone.