Floyd has a flawed style..that never could have been exploited by his opposition

Peppermint · Sep 14, 2015

I'm not debating his skill or greatness, but this is just an observation. Floyd had little defense against a double or triple jab. It puts him on his back foot and open to follow up punches. He has seldom fought against a guy who used this approach against him, but those who have, had success. Most of his opponents would throw one jab, get countered, and not even attempt doubling or tripling up on the jab. But that is the best tool against him. Maidana, who is not particularly fast, had success with it. De la Hoya, had success with it. Berto, who arches his jab and throws it form a squared up position, didn't have as much success because it was telegraphed, slow and not straight. He also followed up with a right hand upstairs, which Floyd anticipates. He can not get his counters off if you throw triple jabs and the shoot to his chest. Floyds head will not be there if you throw to jabs and then a right upstairs. Shoot that right hand southeast of where you think his head is, and you will nail him with it because he dips out of the way a la Hopkins. In fact, look at Hopkins loses. All to guys who used the jab well. But he fought smarter fighters.

One thing about Floyds career, that can not really be debated, is that he rarely fought a fighter with a high ring IQ. He has fought maybe 3 or 4 in 49 fights. Of course he looks great against limited fighters. They cant make him pay for his mistakes.

VG_Addict · Sep 14, 2015

Peppermint said: ↑

I'm not debating his skill or greatness, but this is just an observation. Floyd had little defense against a double or triple jab. It puts him on his back foot and open to follow up punches. He has seldom fought against a guy who used this approach against him, but those who have, had success. Most of his opponents would throw one jab, get countered, and not even attempt doubling or tripling up on the jab. But that is the best tool against him. Maidana, who is not particularly fast, had success with it. De la Hoya, had success with it. Berto, who arches his jab and throws it form a squared up position, didn't have as much success because it was telegraphed, slow and not straight. He also followed up with a right hand upstairs, which Floyd anticipates. He can not get his counters off if you throw triple jabs and the shoot to his chest. Floyds head will not be there if you throw to jabs and then a right upstairs. Shoot that right hand southeast of where you think his head is, and you will nail him with it because he dips out of the way a la Hopkins. In fact, look at Hopkins loses. All to guys who used the jab well. But he fought smarter fighters.

One thing about Floyds career, that can not really be debated, is that he rarely fought a fighter with a high ring IQ. He has fought maybe 3 or 4 in 49 fights. Of course he looks great against limited fighters. They cant make him pay for his mistakes.
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Who could Floyd have fought with a high ring IQ?

It shouldn't be held against him that he has a higher ring IQ than 90% of the other fighters.

WelshWizard · Sep 14, 2015

Peppermint said: ↑

I'm not debating his skill or greatness, but this is just an observation. Floyd had little defense against a double or triple jab. It puts him on his back foot and open to follow up punches. He has seldom fought against a guy who used this approach against him, but those who have, had success. Most of his opponents would throw one jab, get countered, and not even attempt doubling or tripling up on the jab. But that is the best tool against him. Maidana, who is not particularly fast, had success with it. De la Hoya, had success with it. Berto, who arches his jab and throws it form a squared up position, didn't have as much success because it was telegraphed, slow and not straight. He also followed up with a right hand upstairs, which Floyd anticipates. He can not get his counters off if you throw triple jabs and the shoot to his chest. Floyds head will not be there if you throw to jabs and then a right upstairs. Shoot that right hand southeast of where you think his head is, and you will nail him with it because he dips out of the way a la Hopkins. In fact, look at Hopkins loses. All to guys who used the jab well. But he fought smarter fighters.

One thing about Floyds career, that can not really be debated, is that he rarely fought a fighter with a high ring IQ. He has fought maybe 3 or 4 in 49 fights. Of course he looks great against limited fighters. They cant make him pay for his mistakes.
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The question you need to ask yourself is what fighter has a high ring IQ like Floyd?

Your pointing mistakes he's making but nobody in 49 fights is able to figure it out?

Watching on tv and being inside the ring is 2 different things since everything looks quite easy on tv but once you step in the ring its night and day difference !!!

cslb · Sep 14, 2015

lol Maybe you should have been the trainer of the year instead of Roach.

Peppermint · Sep 14, 2015

I'm not saying that he avoided certain fighters, and I'm not even blaming him. But, there is no question that he had some luck on his side in terms of who was available to fight. guys like Winky, Forrest, Quartey, would have given him problems, but the timing and weights didn't quite line up for those fights to take place. Some things cant be simply ignored, and the fact that a B+ fighter like Maidanas jab worked well against the most intelligent defensive fighter on the planet, wasn't luck- it was a good gameplan. 90% of the fighters Mayweather fought, abandoned their gameplans, didn't have good gameplans, or fell victim to his counters and became gun shy. Yes, that is a testament to his skill, but we have seen what works against him over and over. If this was a different era, I think he would have some loses. The jab is sort of a lost art unfortunately.

Doc Everlast · Sep 14, 2015

Prime 147 Vernon Forrest that jabs behind that right hand that crippled iron jawed Mosley would kill Floyd.

VG_Addict · Sep 14, 2015

Raxflex said: ↑

Tbh I don't think this tactic would win you a fight against Floyd. He would adapt pretty fast. Because people have tried but he countered them and then they stopped doing it.

I think you can only beat floyd if you are taller and have somewhat the same reach. Floyd mostly fought fighters shorter than him with a much lesser reach. While you can't blame him for the reach, because Floyd has long ass arms, I think he actively avoided taller fighters because against them the shoulder roll isn't as effective. The only tall fighters he fought were DLH and Corrales. Oscar did pretty well when he used the jab and corrales got dominated.
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What tall fighters could he have fought?

Imperial1 · Sep 14, 2015

Why else do you think hes undefeated ? He waited for**the right time to fight guys. Its cherry picking 101

Apocolypse313 · Sep 14, 2015

Peppermint said: ↑

I'm not debating his skill or greatness, but this is just an observation. Floyd had little defense against a double or triple jab. It puts him on his back foot and open to follow up punches. He has seldom fought against a guy who used this approach against him, but those who have, had success. Most of his opponents would throw one jab, get countered, and not even attempt doubling or tripling up on the jab. But that is the best tool against him. Maidana, who is not particularly fast, had success with it. De la Hoya, had success with it. Berto, who arches his jab and throws it form a squared up position, didn't have as much success because it was telegraphed, slow and not straight. He also followed up with a right hand upstairs, which Floyd anticipates. He can not get his counters off if you throw triple jabs and the shoot to his chest. Floyds head will not be there if you throw to jabs and then a right upstairs. Shoot that right hand southeast of where you think his head is, and you will nail him with it because he dips out of the way a la Hopkins. In fact, look at Hopkins loses. All to guys who used the jab well. But he fought smarter fighters.

One thing about Floyds career, that can not really be debated, is that he rarely fought a fighter with a high ring IQ. He has fought maybe 3 or 4 in 49 fights. Of course he looks great against limited fighters. They cant make him pay for his mistakes.
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That's true. A good constant jabber would make him think more. Anybody at 147 good with the jab?

Flexb · Sep 14, 2015

Peppermint said: ↑

I'm not debating his skill or greatness, but this is just an observation. Floyd had little defense against a double or triple jab. It puts him on his back foot and open to follow up punches. He has seldom fought against a guy who used this approach against him, but those who have, had success. Most of his opponents would throw one jab, get countered, and not even attempt doubling or tripling up on the jab. But that is the best tool against him. Maidana, who is not particularly fast, had success with it. De la Hoya, had success with it. Berto, who arches his jab and throws it form a squared up position, didn't have as much success because it was telegraphed, slow and not straight. He also followed up with a right hand upstairs, which Floyd anticipates. He can not get his counters off if you throw triple jabs and the shoot to his chest. Floyds head will not be there if you throw to jabs and then a right upstairs. Shoot that right hand southeast of where you think his head is, and you will nail him with it because he dips out of the way a la Hopkins. In fact, look at Hopkins loses. All to guys who used the jab well. But he fought smarter fighters.

One thing about Floyds career, that can not really be debated, is that he rarely fought a fighter with a high ring IQ. He has fought maybe 3 or 4 in 49 fights. Of course he looks great against limited fighters. They cant make him pay for his mistakes.
Click to expand...

Oscar was winning the fight behind the Jab vs. Floyd. Everyone wondered why he stopped throwing it, losing the fight. Well, as Oscar was slowing down in the last 1/2 of the fight, he was laying it out there just a fraction longer allowing Floyd to land his counter right. The first half of the fight, it was sharp and Floyd wasn't able to counter it successfully, around the 3/4 mark, floyd was able to counter right over top of it and by the last 1/4 oscar stopped throwing it because of that. It was Oscar's gas tank that cost him that fight, when both men were fresh, oscar was in fact beating Floyd. Which was amazing considering he was 8 years past his best. I'm surprised Oscar didn't get more credit for the close loss than he did. Anyone that knew oscar well, saw how much he had slowed down, was more flat footed and lost his snap by that point, but his RING IQ, is what enabled him to be extremely competitive until the final few rounds, that inevitably cost him the fight on the cards.

Flexb · Sep 14, 2015

Imperial1 said: ↑

Why else do you think hes undefeated ? He waited for**the right time to fight guys. Its cherry picking 101
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Yes sir, that is 100% correct.

VG_Addict · Sep 14, 2015

But really, who could Floyd have fought with a high ring IQ?

Imperial1 · Sep 14, 2015

VG_Addict said: ↑

But really, who could Floyd have fought with a high ring IQ?
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Winky Wright was someone with a good ring IQ who challenged him why didn't he fight him when he was offered the fight ?

M.3 · Sep 14, 2015

Flexb said: ↑

Oscar was winning the fight behind the Jab vs. Floyd. Everyone wondered why he stopped throwing it, losing the fight. Well, as Oscar was slowing down in the last 1/2 of the fight, he was laying it out there just a fraction longer allowing Floyd to land his counter right. The first half of the fight, it was sharp and Floyd wasn't able to counter it successfully, around the 3/4 mark, floyd was able to counter right over top of it and by the last 1/4 oscar stopped throwing it because of that. It was Oscar's gas tank that cost him that fight, when both men were fresh, oscar was in fact beating Floyd. Which was amazing considering he was 8 years past his best. I'm surprised Oscar didn't get more credit for the close loss than he did. Anyone that knew oscar well, saw how much he had slowed down, was more flat footed and lost his snap by that point, but his RING IQ, is what enabled him to be extremely competitive until the final few rounds, that inevitably cost him the fight on the cards.
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8 years? His prime ended at 26?

chacal · Sep 14, 2015

Nah! this "eat the counter and continue jabbing" is just dumb. Everybody saying that floyd has no power, and that's a lie.

The "throw to the chest" strategy. That was what canelo did, do you know the result? floyd dodged the shots to his head and didnt dodge the shots to his chest. Amazing. And not only canelo lost, but people was saying that he didnt acually want to win to mayweather.

Nah, I dont agree.

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Floyd has a flawed style..that never could have been exploited by his opposition

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Floyd has a flawed style..that never could have been exploited by his opposition

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