Floyd makes his case as the GOAT

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Olu G. Rotimi, Oct 3, 2023.



  1. Levook

    Levook Well-Known Member Full Member

    2,129
    2,353
    Aug 26, 2020
    Agreed. Somewhere between 20-30 sounds about right to me.
     
    viperzero and Clinton like this.
  2. Ioakeim Tzortzakis

    Ioakeim Tzortzakis Active Member Full Member

    694
    2,332
    Aug 27, 2020
    It is. I have Sugar Ray Leonard at around 17-18, and he beat Benitez, Duran, Hearns and Hagler for starters. Floyd's top wins aren't on that level.
     
    Clinton and Tockah like this.
  3. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra H2H Burger King Full Member

    9,059
    14,924
    Jan 6, 2017
    Floyd uses the same method a lot of modern sports fans use. He thinks sheer quantity and numbers are enough to make his case.

    Holmes had more title defenses than Ali, but Ali has more quality wins. Liston, Foreman, Frazier, Norton, Quarry, Terrel, etc are of a higher overall quality than Cooney, Old Norton, Witherspoon, Berbick, Old Shavers, Mercer, etc. This is why context matters, not just the sheer number of title defenses.

    A boxer can beat more ranked contenders, but WHEN you beat them matters too! I can beat 6 ranked contenders and another guy can beat 3, but if 5 of the 6 guys I beat were all old, gunshy, coming off various injuries etc, that's not as impressive as beating 3 guys in their prime.

    A boxer can beat more "champions", but if some of those champions won their belts through a controversial decision, they won a vacant belt, they managed to defend their belt 0 times, etc, that doesn't look good under scrutiny. Again, if I beat 10 champions and 8 of them had all those dubious circumstances that's less impressive than beating 5 champions who all earned their belts convincingly and defended their belts a few times.

    Unfortunately for Floyd, this applies to some of his competition. Some guys were older (Mosley, Pacquiao). Some were very young and inexperienced (Ortiz, Canelo). Some had literally just come off a loss (Judah). Floyd missed several names in his era (Tzyu, Williams, Margarito). He very conspicuously never became undisputed in a 4 belt era. He very conspicuously missed several of the rising young champions at 147 (Thurman, Porter, Brook, Khan, etc). For quite a while he was primarily focused on fighting aggressive Latino sluggers and seemed to lack variety in opponents towards the end of his career (where are the counter punchers, movers, boxer-punchers, etc?).

    He was unquestionably the best fighter of his era in terms of "career" and he passes the eye test for amazing skill/defense. But Floyd was very strategic in the way he maneuvered around his career and wasn't seeking out the murderer's row. He never cleaned out any of his divisions. For me, an ATG isn't just about sheer numbers, you need to fight best when they're at THEIR best. The most glaring would be Pacuiao, Cotto, Canelo, Mosley, Hatton, and De la Hoya. Those were perhaps his 6 best opponents and only ONE of them was in his prime! That's a big issues for me because quality is just as important as quantity, if not more important.
     
  4. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    107,844
    38,177
    Mar 21, 2007
    You could argue him into the top 15. An astounding achievement.
     
  5. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

    53,366
    31,892
    Feb 11, 2005
    First Tier: Greb, Langford, Robinson...

    Second Tier: Duran, Ali, Armstrong, Fitzsimmons, Louis

    Third Tier: Where Floyd is competing for a place.
     
    techks and Tockah like this.
  6. RulesMakeItInteresting

    RulesMakeItInteresting Boxing Junkie Full Member

    7,946
    10,107
    Mar 23, 2019
    Well, he was never Henry Armstrong, Robert Duran, or Sugar Ray Robinson (for starters) .

    I too think Pernell might rank a bit above him.

    Floyd is however certainly an ATG though, very great fighter imo.
     
    Tockah likes this.
  7. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    26,074
    9,593
    Jan 4, 2008
    This is only a valid comparison with those in the four belt era. And even then I wonder if Pac doesn't have him beat.
     
    slash and Stevie G like this.
  8. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    26,074
    9,593
    Jan 4, 2008
    I could see top 10 and above the Four Kings for example. Don't know if I'd have him there, but the argument doesn't seem unreasonable.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2023
    Stevie G likes this.
  9. THE BLADE 2

    THE BLADE 2 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    11,326
    4,025
    Jul 14, 2009
    I would suggest that is unreasonable.He might have a case to rank above Hearns.Then again, Hearns would beat his ass badly.
     
  10. Melankomas

    Melankomas Prime Jeffries would demolish a grizzly in 2 Full Member

    2,958
    3,229
    Dec 18, 2022
    He has none
     
    Tockah likes this.
  11. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    26,074
    9,593
    Jan 4, 2008
    I don't do fantasy H2H and in terms of resume I'd have him above Hearns. And Duran, seeing how Duran **** his pants (not literally as first claimed, though) in New Orleans.

    Leonard is harder, I'd say, since it depends on how you weigh quantity against quality of wins.
     
  12. THE BLADE 2

    THE BLADE 2 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    11,326
    4,025
    Jul 14, 2009
    Again, he has a case to be ranked above Hearns. But not above the others.
     
  13. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    26,074
    9,593
    Jan 4, 2008
    Ok. Misunderstood you.

    I have him above Hagler, I think his resume is clearly better. And because of No Mas, I have him above Duran.

    Leonard is either way for me. I can see Leonard above because of his superior wins, but also Mayweather for his consistency and longevity.
     
  14. THE BLADE 2

    THE BLADE 2 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    11,326
    4,025
    Jul 14, 2009
    Well Duran had over 100 fights. With Duran's performances over Barkley and Hagler, I just think that is just too much to overcome for Floyd. Duran is a lock Top 10 ATG in my book

    Leonard's wins over Benitez, Duran and Hearns, that is just too much to overcome for Floyd. Leonard is a lock Top 15 ATG in my book. He even has a case for Top 10.
     
    Stevie G likes this.
  15. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    26,074
    9,593
    Jan 4, 2008
    Carrying the worst, by far, quit job in history his resume is not top 10 for me.