Floyd makes his case as the GOAT

Agreed on the Hearns part, I can also definitely see him above Hagler too. I have Floyd in thetop 30 range, with solid cases for being in the mid to early 20's, and while he might have a top 20 type of case, I just don't think he wins that case against any other fighter of similar ilk to actually belong there, I think it would be a major stretch.

my 15-20 include Ross, Canzoneri, Ray Leonard and McGovern.

Canzoneri has wins wins over guys like Taylor, Berg, Ross, McLarnin, Ambers, Arizmendi, Chocolate, Petrolle and Routis. Quite frankly, I don't think Floyd's resume compares to that.

McGovern has wins over Palmer, Dixon, Erne and a dubious one against Gans. All in like a year or something crazy like that.

Leonard has Benitez, Hearns, Hagler and Duran. Also some underrated depth against guys like Mayweather Sr, Viruet, Kalule and Ranzany.

Ross has wins over Canzoneri, McLarnin, Garcia, Pacho, Petrolle and Jannazo.

Floyd just falls short of guys like this.

 

When he had those losses he had had more than two to three times the amount of fights that Mayweather had in total. He went unbeaten for almost twice the number of fights Mayweather had in total, so, yes, in terms of number of fights (which for more me is the most important) he was more consistent than Mayweather.

If you have Mayweather at nr. 1, I suppose Calzaghe is nr. 2? I mean he also looked much better in his mid 30's than Robinson did, not to mention than Armstrong.

And Calzaghe is of course also way, way higher than RJJ, whom he also beat, for you.

 

Neither do I

 

Floyd was only more consistent because when he started fighting good opposition he had time to let his body heal for 6 months. Could you imagine Floyd having to fight every other week with those brittle hands?

 

Would you say Calzaghe has an argument at the top spot as well?

 

I always enjoy your posts and your passion! Sorry I think you took my post over seriously

Having said that let me vent about Ray! I came back to make a point that Bokaj already made but to add to it SSR up till Turpin lost once (against a guy he beat 5 times) in more than double the fights Mayweather had. I am not saying it is impossible but you make Floyd fight another 70 fights and the likelihood his precious "0" disappears is increased. Also I feel you make a disservice to guys like LaMotta, Bell, Angott, Zivic, Servo, Villeman, Fusari, Olsen, Mims who were all excellent fighters, let alone ATGs Armstrong and Gavilan. Quite a few of these guys today would have held numerous belts. Mayweather beat many fine fighters, many world champions. But would any of them been world champs in the 50s with 1 belt? Maybe but maybe not. Take away the straps (out of the 4 "legit" available per weight class) and suddenly Mayweather has beaten an bunch of solid contenders (like everyone I listed above for Ray) and far fewer "champions".

In Ray's first 100 or so fights, what presumably appear to you as just a list of drunks and plumbers are the cream of 50s boxing at WW. In the same way Mayweather's opponents will just be a bunch of meaningless names in 50 years and we will have to tell ignorant new fans that Castillo, Corrales, Maidana etc were all terrific fighters who meant something at the time or why the f*ck would anyone have wanted to watch the fights happen? Amazingly 50s fans wanted to see the best of the best fight great fights as well.

I have been talking about Ray before Turpin. After that loss his record does get spotty but he lost to excellent fighters, Fulmer, Basilio (undisputed champ at two of the original weight classes for god's sake). Pender, Downes (who did not suck), Giardello and both Moyer brothers were not rubbish fighters, far from it. They may not have 5 world titles in 8 weight classes but what the hell does that mean anyway? So suddenly if Joey Giardello was 5 times IBO champ is he more worthy of being called a great fighter?

Yes he went on too long and from 1964 onwards didn't lose to the greatest fighters but he fought 179 times (!) by the time he loses to Micky Leahy which starts his final slide and been undisputed WW champ and undisputed MW champ.

Yes sure everyone likes to make excuses but when I reviewed SSR's record I was just overwhelmed by how great he was and suddenly I felt personally insulted that anyone would put Floyd above him

I know I went off topic from what points you were making which are all very valid but I got on a roll lol!

 

Oh I didn't answer this part sorry! Without looking at either's record or knowing anything about their opposition I can confidently answer that both Manny and Canelo just fought a bunch of useless bums and Terry Downes (who sucked apparently) would beat either after a hard night of darts and brown ale with a dolly bird down the pub.

 

You're the one who brought up that Robinson was more consistent against good fighters. I just asked if he really was (compared to Mayweather) and showed areas where Robinson was NOT more consistent.

I acknowledged Ray Robinson's run was phenomenal. Anyone that could be considered among the best ever has long line of accomplishments.

My point is simply Floyd Mayweather has just as valid of a claim to the best ever position as anyone, because he brings accomplishments to the table historic fighters you'd rank above him don't ... just like they could bring some he doesn't.

If you're going to nitpick every Floyd fight, then get out the magnifying class and nitpick anyone you'd rate higher just the same. Is their competition really so much better than his? Really, is it?

He never lost. How many losses do they have? How many were bad losses? Embarrassing losses? Do you find yourself looking for excuses for those losses? Because you don't need to make any excuses for Mayweather.

Mayweather was a great fighter for two decades ... the entire time he fought. How long were the others actually great? Or at some point were they mainly ordinary, and here and there they might have a good night?

Are you okay with having the best fighter ever looking at times like garbage on film, losing badly, QUITTING badly?

Because Floyd never looked like that.

(Side note: I'm not one of those people who ignore all of the atrocious outings Roy Jones had in his career. I'm a believer that if you are going to keep fighting, the bad losses against Danny Green are just as much a part of your career as the big wins over Toney. If you don't want the bad losses, then stop fighting. Because it all goes on the same record ... yours.)

Gotta go.

 

Agreed but you say Floyd would be favorite over Margarito. If you saw those video's of Floyd when Margarito merely asked him " Why wont you fight me"? You'd know there was no way ever Floyd would fight Tony.
Someone asked him "Are you going to fight Margarito."? He stuttered & stammered "Who is Margarito, Ive never heard of him. Who is he" ? LOL Someone from the back yelled You just met him Floyd lol In fact I believe just after that Floyd did one of his "Retire forever " stunts it lasted till that debacle with the CSAC & Naz Richardson stole his boxing license. Ole Floyd came slithering back then Margarito wasn't threatening him any more. Youre right Floyd was nowhere near Best Ever lol

 

LOL Floyd was in tears with Ellerbe consoling him He knew himself he never beat Maidana that night. He had to FIGHT for once, Cortez wasn't there, Floyd wasn't up to it. Kenny Bayless made sure Floyd won the rematch he never gave Maidana a chance to fight

 

Henry Armstrong and Kid Gavilan. Who did Mayweather beat on the night he fought them that was as good as Hearns and Benitez were the night they fought Leonard?

 

The big difference in Floyd & Sugar Ray is, Sugar never had a state commission & their officials covering his back so he never got a losing decision. Talk about fighting bums you forget #49 & #50 were a shot & mostly retired Andre Berto & an MMA fighter making his pro boxing debut Plus he had losses too that Vegas judges snuffed out for him. Heck even the notorious Floyd worshipper MVC scoffed when Floyd announced Berto. He said Floyd's just pulling your chain it wont be Berto WRONG!!!!!!!!! LOL

 

I would rank the 4 kings and Floyd like this:

1. Duran ( Top 10 ATG)
2. Leonard ( Top 15 ATG)
3. Hagler ( Top 20 ATG]
4. Floyd (Top 30 ATG)
5. Hearns (Top 40 ATG)

 

Who did Mayweather beat that was better than Roy Jones or Bernard Hopkins? Do you rate Calzaghe as being close to the top?