Floyd Mayweather Jr or Julio Cesar Chavez at 130 and 135

Are you quite confident Chavez beats Mayweather? Im not sure personally, though i may take him at 135 possibly.

 

Julio Cesar Chavez by K.O.

 

I knew people would jump on me for this.

But let me explain my position...He beat and drew with Stevie Johnson, upset of the year if my memory is correct. Also holds a win over Stevie's first conquerer, Cesar Bazan.

He nearly beat or even arguably beat probably the best fighter in this decade in PBF. He holds wins over 2 division champs Casamayor and Corrales. Top challengers Julio Diaz (one time titlist) and Juan Lazcano . Im pretty sure he has a win over the Clown prince aswell. A few other half decent names sprinkled in there aswell.

He may be outside the 15, but name me 15 in front of him with justification and I will be swayed, I may be ignorant on the issue but I would definitley have a hard time finding 25 names that were better.

Post Mosley besides Mayweather he was probably the best at the weight by a clear margin until it started getting stacked about 05 and he was struggling with the weight.

He achieved next to nothing outside of 135 and that will hurt his overall legacy but his wins at the weight have a lot of merit IMHO.

 

Here's a quick 15, plenty more where that came from, especially if we're including fighters of a higher ability along with just accomplishments:

Roberto Duran
Benny Leonard
Joe Gans
Pernell Whitaker
Carlos Ortiz
Ike Williams
Sammy Angott
Beau Jack
Bob Montgomery
Ken Buchanan
Lou Ambers
Barney Ross
Tony Canzoneri
Joe Brown
Ismael Laguna

 

Well there you go..


Ok Sweet Pea now 25..

I see your point. I stand corrected.

 

I'd take Mayweather at 130 and 135. The difference between both matches taking place at those weights isn't enough for a swing to go in the other direction. You could point to Mayweather's lackluster showing against Castillo being a case where Chavez beats him. But Mayweather did have a torn rotator cuff which limited his use of it. Both had rather short time spans at 135lbs. The styles, speed, stamina, and general way they went about their business in those divisions was close and not enough for a different outcome. The main ingredients are styles, speed, punch resistance, athleticism, etc. Although their performances against their opponents over 130 and 135 obviously gets taken into account.

I'll probably take Mayweather at 140, and 147lbs without question.

Duran's style in aggression would pose the kind of problems it would take to topple Mayweather decisively.

 

Spot on.

Floyd arguably lost the first fight, but his solution to Castillo in the rematch did nothing to suggest to me that he beats Chavez. He still struggled with Castillo the second time round and had to stink the house out to get the verdict. That performance just wouldn't get the job done against Chavez on his worst (prime) night.

 

Would you prefer more skill and better champion or longevity, good champion and warrior? Its a tough one but i really liked Mayweather at those lower weight classes. He was just a monster and he mixed the power with all of that ability. Chavez was a great fighter as well, but he was spoon fed a lot of fighters and many decisions that were suppose to go against him, went his way. I thought he loss to Whitaker and Randall both times, and we all know about the Meldrick Taylor incident. If he only had the management of a Floyd Mayweather and wasn't babied by Don King, what would have happened if he didn't get those wins? Would he still be known as a great? Not too sure.

 

Just a few things...

*I don't see a shutout. No way. This is Julio Cesar Chavez we're talking about, not Ricky Hatton, not Ndou, not Gatti.

*You say Taylor was boxing his ears off, but someone was making him choke on his own blood and busting him up inside. (He was ahead in the scoring, but Chavez was hurting him badly.)

I agree with most of what you said, but just took exception to those two points. I think it's an extremely tough fight for Chavez, particularly at 130.

 

130-135 Chavez, anything higher, Mayweather.

Overall Chavez was the better man.

 

I see it as a potential shutout (but Chavez probably wins 3 rounds) based on styles, look at the way Whitaker made Chavez miss so easily and pepper Chavez at will, Floyd would do the same.

Mayweather was the sort of fighter who could shutout and dominate greats. Look what he did to Corrales, who beat Casamayor, Castillo, Freitas, Garcia, Gainer, Manfredy.

Hatton gets a little underrated here, he does things Chavez doesn't which is get on his opponents chest, not give him room, plus hes far stronger than Chavez with a very high workrate and brutal body attack. Plus he stopped Tyszu and Castillo

 

Fair enough, although Chavez was at 147 when he fought Pea, not his best weight. I'm not sure how much we can read into that for the purposes of this matchup.

* I'm sure he beat Kostya on points? (Hatton that is)

 

Didnt come out for the last round

 

Chavez didn't really have a bad performance at 135 or lower. Any questionable performances were at 140 or higher. Someone mentioned he was "spoonfed". Really?

Mario Martinez
Jose Luis Ramirez
Edwin Rosario
Rodolfo Aguilar
Danilo Cabrera
Juan Laporte
Rocky Lockridge
Roger Mayweather
Ruben Castillo

If that's spoonfed, I'd like to hear who he was supoosed to fight.

Ricky Hatton is a very good fighter. He's not nearly in the same league as Chavez though.

 

I wouldn't dispute that but he is allot physically bigger and stronger (weighing 155-160 on fight night) and that counts for allot in the pressure fighter versus boxer scenario