Floyd Mayweather Jr. vs. Pernell Whitaker

Stylistically, Mayweather cannot win against Whitaker. Not at any weight, not at any point in their careers. A fight between them would be most competitive at 154, but Pea would still win. Mayweather was dreadful for the majority of the fight with a years past-prime stamina-shorn Oscar. Whitaker would certainly succeed and get the decision where that version of Oscar narrowly failed.

 

Why is this a joke of a topic Seamus? A joke to you, but maybe not a joke to others viewing this thread?

Did you post your opinion in another thread with the same topic? Maybe you don't want to get into details again if you already did, but you shouldn't be so quick to judge the thread, especially if you consider yourself a knowledgeable person about this sport.

Everyone has opinions on this forum, so if it's a joke to you, don't respond and disrespect another boxing fan who has a legit question. Who came down from Heaven and made you the God of this forum, deciding what is comic relief and what is serious discussion? Maybe you should "enlighten us with your boxing acumen" Seamus.

In this case, I think Mayweather Jr vs Pernell is a serious matchup between two of the best of all time. This could be a close match with Mayweather the early favourite, but I'd bet on Pernell's defensive skills to carry him to a close UD win.

 

boring fight

 

:admin Really ?

OK, Whitaker is an ATG fighter, proved himself for yrs, he even makes my top 10 but c`mon, thats a mental statement.

McGirt gave Pea all he could handle in their 1st fight (& for 4 rds of the rematch but that fight aint gonna help my case so I`ll leave that one out ) & Floyd is faster, a better boxer, better puncher & a better adapter than Buddy & that version of Pea was way better than the one in question (Vasquez), way better.

If they fought 10 times in their prime, Id say Whitaker takes about 7 but these 154 lb versions definitely suits Mayweather better than Pea.

When I think of style disadvantages where Id ALWAYS bet on the same guy no matter how many times they fought, Id think of a Foreman/Marciano... definitely not a Whitaker/Mayweather.

I think you have did the skills of FMJ an injustice or exaggerated Whitaker`s TBH.

JMO :good

 

Yeah, but he made Vasquez look like a fool.

 

Mental? No, just my genuine perception of how their styles would match up: Unwinnable for Floyd.

Floyd has real trouble with authoritative jabs: Whitaker has one of the best jabs of all-time

One of Floyd's main strengths is his speed and athleticism: Whitaker is at least as fast of hand and foot (perhaps faster)

Floyd likes to lie on the ropes: Whitaker is a tremendous infighter, so if Floyd lies on the ropes Sweet Pea is not going to stand straight in front of him and swing wildly like Phillip N'Dou, he will get up close and make it a fight in a phone booth


I'm surprised that my opinion merits the emoticons, I think most Classic posters who have watched either man extensively would concur that Pea is pretty much the exact scientific formula of Kryptonite for Floyd for said reasons.

I think that's overstating it a bit. McGirt was a superb welterweight, a better fighter than anyone Floyd has ever fought IMO, and he gave Pea trouble for a few rounds and made it a competitive fight, but at the end of the 12 rounds you would have to say that Whitaker comprehensively outfought him over the course and won a close but ultimately comfortable decision.

That fight was not what I would call a genuinely torrid evening for Whitaker - not like the first Castillo fight was for Floyd, for example.

I think we all overstate how close that fight was because hardly anyone else even laid a serious glove on peak Pea.

Slightly off-topic, but since you did indeed mention that fight I will address it re a previous debate we had:

The second Whitaker-McGirt fight is a perfect example of what I am suggesting in red. After the tricky first fight, Pea had worked McGirt out, went back in against him absolutely determined to assert his superiority as a fighter over Buddy, and did so with a flourish. After Floyd's tricky (torrid) first fight with Castillo, he did what I have highlighted in red. Sums up the difference in quality between the two men under discussion nicely I feel.

Back to the thread topic...

Much more importantly though, Pea is as fast or faster than Floyd, a better boxer than Floyd, and a better adaptor. Floyd has a slight advantage in punch power, but that would never be enough to make a difference because he could never stop Whitaker, nor even make Pea wary of his power and thus make it have any great impact on the flow of the fight.

Whitaker wins 10. I'm not saying Whitaker is 10 times better or anything, it's a styles thing. Floyd would have a nightmare against Pea, he would hate every minute of it. I think Floyd could beat men who were greater than him. I can envisage Floyd outpointing the late great Alexis Arguello over 12 rounds at superfeatherweight for instance, on account of their styles. But in this instance, I genuinely don't believe Floyd has a prayer.

I'm not sure how you can be so definite about it. I mean, I agree with you to an extent, I think Floyd would carry 154 better and I think he could've been successful there and I think Pea would have been significantly diminished there, but not to such a huge extent that I think Floyd could beat a man who would surely dominate him 135-147.

They both had only one fight at 154, and they were both unconvincing there. If you compare their 154 performances to their peak performances at 130 for Floyd and 135 for Pea, they were both garbage at 154. Floyd looked like he carried the weight better sure, but his one weak showing there does not make it 'definite' he was a more effective fighter there.

Because Pea would not knock Floyd out early does not mean that a victory would not be emphatic and assured. This may not be the most unwinnable hypothetical anyone can think of, because I am sure we can all think of a guaranteed annihilation, but my conviction that Pea is Floyd's Kryptonite is strong.

Even though I think he could outpoint Arguello?

Anyway, this is a familiar juncture for you and I.

I think you perpetually overrate Floyd because you have a conventional and reductive view of what skill is and value "slickness" far too highly, and you block out the weaknesses in the undefeated fighter's game that are shown up in his biggest fights because he managed to get the decision in those fights.

You think I perpetually underrate him, for whatever reason.

Fair do's.

I don't think it's possible to rate Whitaker too highly. If the man had serious punching power, he would very possibly be the greatest fighter of all-time in terms of ability.

And I know it's your honest opinion mate, I respect that and I always enjoy debating with you. :good

 

I think McGirt performed much better at welter then Floyd did.

A fight between them would be a very tightly contested one.

 

With the Taylor-McGirt fight in mind, I think Floyd on his best night at 147 would outpoint Buddy.

 

Agreed, and I definitely don't think Floyd is a better puncher at 147 than Buddy McGirt, nor do I think he is really faster either as Bill claims.

 

How do you see that fight as relevant? Taylor basically taxed McGirt with a ridiculous workrate. Floyd's one punch at a time boxing at 147 wouldn't resemble Taylor's effort at all. Both Taylor and Floyd are fast, but I think the similarities end there.

 

Taylor's handspeed gave Buddy enormous problems. I can imagine Floyd would get a sense of this early and tailor his fight plan accordingly. I can't see him lying on the ropes and pot-shotting one at a time if he gets a sense that handspeed and punches in bunches would trouble Buddy. He is too smart and too adaptable a fighter for that.

 

Well, let's look at the Zab Judah fight for instance. He got behind in that fight and made some adjustments that coincided with Zab mentally imploding, but he still didn't set a pace that resembled anything that Taylor did to Buddy.

I think McGirt can hang with any pace that Mayweather sets. He did ok hanging with the pace Whitaker set, and Whitaker was more aggressive than Mayweather would be getting on the inside and attacking the body as he did.

For what it's worth, I also think Buddy is a better defensive fighter than Zab Judah was, even though he wasn't noted for his defense McGirt was quite shifty.

 

I think you are referring more to the overall tempo of the fight, whereas I am focussing more on Floyd's handspeed specifically. Buddy may be able to handle the tempo fine v Floyd in a way he was not against Meldrick (and thus the ref deemed him unable to finish v Meldrick), so I don't envisage the fight not going the distance or anything of the sort, but I feel that Floyd on his best night at 147 and with the right effort and intention, could utilize handspeed of such a velocity that would be a consistent points-scorer in exchanges with Buddy, and so would win a decision. It would be a close, absorbing fight with rounds won and lost on each side, but ultimately I see Floyd's speed winning more exchanges, tickling the judges' fancy in terms of scoring shots, and edging a win more often than not.

I'll need to see your response tomorrow amigo, got to log off now :good

 

Fair enough mate. I think we can agree that it would be a close fight and Floyd would do his fair share of scoring due to his speed which will trouble McGirt. For mine though, I think Buddy's speed will trouble Mayweather too. Floyd wasn't as quick reflexively at welterweight as he was at lower weights.

 

OK, a lot of fair points, I actually agree with the majority of what you say.

Only 2 things I would feel enough to disagree on are.... I feel Mayweather has the speed advantage, close tho, probably not enough between them to continue debating but I have felt that way for a while...... & me rating FMJ on the `slickness` thing, I actually think Whitaker is `slicker` than Mayweather, he uses his whole body movement better in defence than Floyd, FMJ`s best defensive moves involve quite a lot of contact but very minimal & rarely damaging, ie. the shoulder roll.
Its not just his defence/slickness that makes me rate him highly, I admire his accuracy in punch picking as well as his variety of punches when he has a man in trouble & decides to try close the show (he should come forward more often, he`d be one of the most exciting fighters today IMO)

:good