Floyd Mayweather Jr. Vs. Sugar Ray Robinson

We just have to accept differing opinions. My prediction is that Mayweather beats Robinson. There is no point in having a discussion forum if we dismiss other people's views as 'laughable.' It is a boxing match; there are two fighters in the ring, and either one can win.
Floyd is a modern, undefeated fighter. His athletic baseline is superior due to modern advances in training, nutrition, and recovery science. He was never knocked out or even seriously troubled in the ring. He certainly never got himself in situations like suffering from severe dehydration like Robinson did against Turpin. He also never lost to a fighter like LaMotta—Mayweather's modern equivalent to that would be Gatti, whom he dominated. Did you even watch the Mayweather-Gatti fight, or was that 'laughable' to you as well? You've been here for 15 years with that type of closed mindset? You'll never move forward like that.

 

I find these different viewpoints very interesting and equally compelling. It's easy for fans of either fighter to casually pick 'their' guy and cite many reasons for their pick. I only know one thing about this match up. It would be a hell of a fight. Floyd would mot have faced someone like 'peak' Ray, and Ray would not have faced anyone with Floyd's attributes, even at WW. It would be a damn hard fight with neither man having an easy fight. Oh. And for me, its a pick 'em fight. I'd not be surprised at any eventuality...

Great thread, thanks all. Peace and love, Px

 

I could decimate your posts with ease.

As could anyone here.

But I don’t believe you’re genuine.

Your posts are horrific.

I actually genuinely hope for your own sake that you’re trolling though.

 

Assume that he is telling the truth and has a bonafide belief that Floyd is the superior athlete with all the advantages - Gatti is not in anyway synonymous with a full stone heavier La Motta that Robbi encountered as a WW.

WW is also the division where Floyd was more economical and shifted output to compensate for age and less than stellar hands.

Floyd has no punching power or infighting tendency at this division to deter a primed Robbi from moving into range to do damage. At the same time, Floyd is going to do things that might give Robbi room to think but I think people seriously underestimate Robbi's boxing acumen.

 

I've blocked you now. You were given the chance to get your act together and you refused so we wont be talking anymore.

 

I’m truly devastated.

Look, when someone compares Gatti to Jake, you know what’s happening.

You’ll be banned very soon.

No stylistic breakdown.

No breakdown of their individual attributes and experience etc.

No breakdown of anything.

Oh, but we have videos of the past, so everyone today can be better as they can learn from it.

Ha!

Then why do we have a number of entire divisions from today, that are completely inferior to one’s from decades ago?

Yeah, you’re trolling.

 

There’s no way he was telling the truth.

His entire opening post was cringeworthy.

You can’t have that outlook but know who Archie is.

So he has to be 100% trolling.

 

It’s not about picking your guy.

The guy is clearly trolling.

Look at what he’s written.

No new member starts out like this, then immediately puts someone on ignore.

It’s just a troll looking for attention.

It’s very obvious.

 

Would it be better if he invoked Howard Davis Jr? Or, given Robinson’s vintage, maybe Sammy Davis Jr?

 

I was not referring to any particular poster, just the discussion in general man. It is illuminating to read the thoughts of you all, the breadth of knowledge, opinions, interpretations is sometimes breathtaking and always enjoyable. Take care, peace and love always, Px

 

Ah yes, the great march of human progress.

Better nutrition, like the McDonalds Floyd was basically addicted to, the trash from the bins Pacquiao ate as a growing kid, and the candy Crawford admits to eating mid-camp. Modern training and recovery, like the one that has Beterbiev postponing or cancelling half his fights and the one that left Usyk out of the ring for 10 months due to "unseen injuries" after a fight where he barely got tagged. That's the secret to beating Sugar Ray Robinson. Totally.

The MMA example is even better. Take an ordinary person today, give him a year of MMA training, teleport him to the 1950s, and behold how he defeats some untrained bouncer because he knows what a guillotine is. Case closed. Robinson and the entire 50s Boxing scene has been defeated because of a discipline Floyd doesn't train at, and wasn't even thought of as a legitimate combat sport until Griffin vs Bonnar in 2005.

And if all athletes inherently improve, then why does the current best long jumper in the world and x2 Olympic gold medalist have a personal record of 8.66, whereas a guy from 1968 jumped a record of 8.90, and the all time record is 8.95 from 1991 ? I's almost like it's up to the individual instead of a vague assumption that modern inherently means better.

So talk about the individuals. What is it that Floyd can do, exactly, that allows him to beat Robinson ? Talk Boxing ability instead of "mah evolution".

 

Beaman's record whilst astonishing also had a perfect storm of conditions...

 

Couldn't have put it better myself.

I probably owe @Loudon a bit of a half-apology. I skim-read the original post, but after seeing the claims about modern equipment somehow elevating today's fighters, I had to double back.

Now more than ever, modern boxers spend half their camps doing flashy, aesthetic drills designed for social media clips; a lot of stuff that makes them look explosive on pads or look shredded in training footage. Realistically, the truest, most undeniable way to sharpen high-level boxing skill, vision, and timing is through sparring and actual fight frequency.

By that metric alone, Sugar Ray Robinson operated on a completely different planet than Floyd Mayweather Jr. SRR had over 200 pro fights against hall-of-famers and elite contenders, often fighting multiple times a month. The idea that a modern training regimen bests that level of real-world, high-stakes ring experience is eyebrow-raising.

The claim that a 1950s or earlier era fighter wouldn't know how to handle the baseline skills of a modern boxer is pure historical ignorance:

Defensive Mastery: Canzoneri, Pep, Robinson, Ezzard Charles, Archie Moore, Charley Burley were all actively employing variations of tucking their chin behind a shoulder and blading off, philly shell mechanics, and clever guard manipulation to protect their chins long before Floyd perfected his craft

The Fundamentals: A jab is still a jab. An uppercut is still an uppercut. The mechanics of human movement haven't magically mutated in 70 years.

Lost Arts: If anything, technical boxing has heavily regressed, particularly when it comes to inside fighting, body punching, and controlling locked-up clinches, which 1950s masters treated like a chess match.

Modern equipment might make you look great in a highlights reel, but fight experience makes the fighter. And SRR has lightyears' edge on experience.

Saying that Floyd might have the style to defuse Sugar is one thing - arguing it based on modernism and training equipment, whilst referencing MMA which Floyd has no particular proficiency in any way is a false equivalence.

 

Jr gets his ass kicked.

 

Great post.

Nothing much to add really.

Apart from the fact that Floyd never saw a guy with all of Ray’s attributes.

He never saw anyone with equal speed, along with a bigger reach, with more power and a bigger offensive arsenal at the weight.

The stylistic match up would have favoured Ray.

Just like against a Leonard, as soon as these guys would have fought Floyd aggressively, he’d have been backed up into a defensive shell, thus nullifying his own offense for scoring opportunities.

To me, he’d have not gotten hurt, but he’d have lost a decision.

Trolls/casuals will point to the fact that he fought powerful, stronger guys in the past. But again, nobody with ALL of the attributes that Ray had.

That’s what they don’t get.

Whenever Floyd was at a disadvantage in size, strength or power, he had his advantages in skills, speed and reach to compensate.

But against Ray, those usual advantages wouldn’t have been there.

No clear speed advantage.

No significant reach advantage.

No advantage in offensive skills.

That would be completely alien to him.

Then add in: Strength, power, and a huge ego, with 100% confidence and a killer instinct, with greater experience.

Then what?

Uncle Roger had him spooked about fighting Manny.

So what on earth would he have thought of his nephew having fought a prime Ray?