Floyd Mayweather, Jr. vs. the ATGs

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by radianttwilight, Dec 13, 2007.


  1. radianttwilight

    radianttwilight Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I know this topic has been done (many times) before, especially in the past few days, but I'm going to post what I think is a pretty comprehensive list of fighters in the 130-140 (a few at 147) range.

    All of these matchups are prime-for-prime, so we're assuming Whitaker isn't coked out, Chavez isn't an old man, etc :D

    I'm trying to avoid the "Mayweather #1ATG KO'S SRR PFP#1ALL-TIME" nuthugger brigade by posting in the Classic forum. Here goes - these aren't ALL ATGs, but I'm trying to make this list as all-encompassing as possible.

    Meldrick Taylor
    Sugar Ray Leonard
    Oscar De La Hoya
    Felix Trinidad
    Shane Mosley
    Vernon Forrest
    Julio Cesar Chavez
    Pernell Whitaker
    Alexis Arguello
    Hector Camacho
    Azumah Nelson
    Joel Casamayor
    Benny Leonard
    Barney Ross
    Henry Armstrong
    Roberto Duran
    Kostya Tszyu
    Fritzie Zivic
    Sugar Ray Robinson
    Kid Gavilan
    Charley Burley
    Carmen Basilio
    Emile Griffith
    Thomas Hearns
    Donald Curry
    Ike Quartey
    Juan Diaz


    I'm positive that I forgot ALOT of the old-timer greats, but I'm hoping people can help me out here :D

    Obviously nobody is going to consider ALL of these matchups, but what is the general consensus?
     
  2. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    The only 1s I'd pick over PBF would be:

    Meldrick Taylor
    Sugar Ray Leonard
    Pernell Whitaker
    Sugar Ray Robinson
    Thomas Hearns

    The rest can't beat him they dont have the style to do so.
     
  3. Holmes' Jab

    Holmes' Jab Master Jabber Full Member

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    Yep. Maybe Chavez, Griffith, Duran and Gavilan as well. A few others would be close calls too.
     
  4. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    Meldrick Taylor yet not guys like Gavilan among others?
     
  5. enquirer

    enquirer Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Floyd struggled with old de la hoya and arguably lost to castillo and yet he beats all these hall of famers,who in many cases are naturally much bigger??!!
    If floyd fights on for longer or fights better fighters i am going to love it when hes brought down to earth as were nunn,curry,jones,mosley and others who were considered 'pretenders' for robinsons crown.
    Man how much kudos does beating an undersized and underskilled hatton bring? :nut
    If he has a carrer defining fight where he actually has to come through adversity and pull it out of the bag against a prime great opponent or even if he loses leonard/duran style but shows his toughness and skills then he will rank higher,he is too much of an unknown quantity as of now...
    There have been many fighters in history who had sublime skills or looked great against lesser opposition,we cant rank these at the top echelons until they actually defeat great opponents...
    Unless folks are saying money may is so great that he dont need to prove it?
     
  6. sweet_scientist

    sweet_scientist Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Just constraining it to the welterweights of the last ten years, I think the likes of DLH, Quartey, Forrest, Trinidad, Mosley and Whitaker could all beat Floyd at 147. Floyd wouldn't be without a chance of beating them all too, but I think the welters around today aren't equal to the talent of the welterweight division a decade ago. I'd be surprised if Floyd came out of an era like that without two or three losses at least.
     
  7. sweet_scientist

    sweet_scientist Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Just wanted to mention some welterweights becuase that's the division Floyd's currently fighting at and many are under the impression that he is becoming a great welter. All I have to say that the likes of Judah, Baldomir and Hatton would have been destroyed amongst the welters 10 years ago. Heck, even an Oba Carr or Jose Luis Lopez would have done the business on them imo.
     
  8. brownpimp88

    brownpimp88 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Floyd should be compared to the atg super feathweights and lightweights. Its stupid to put him against a guy that started at 147. This is why he ranks higher than carlos ortiz and arguello IMO. Those guys lost to mediocrities in their own prime and own weight classes, while floyd moved all the way up to 154. De La Hoya would have crushed arguello and tko'd ortiz.
     
  9. radianttwilight

    radianttwilight Well-Known Member Full Member

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    He didn't stay at 130/135, though. He vacated his "prime" division (130 or 135) seven/five years ago. It's silly to argue that a loss is more demeaning because it was in someone's "own" division, when Floyd vacated his "own division" when he was 24. Longevity counts, in this case.

    We're putting him against some guys that started at 147 because he vacated the lower weight classes...obviously he is better off against guys at superfeather and lightweight, but his bodies of work at 130 and 135 are relatively small when compared to alot of the ATGs of the past.
     
  10. brownpimp88

    brownpimp88 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    many atgs of the past depended on fighting smaller blown up featherweights, rather than moving up and fighting welterweights. I mean floyd could have done what ortiz and pryor would do and fight someone like prince hamed, but he had bigger fish to fry.
     
  11. radianttwilight

    radianttwilight Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Oh yeah, I forgot that he moved up to welterweight and beat up on Zab "Choker" Judah, Ricky "Hugs" Hatton (who, interestingly enough, are prime at 140) and Carlos "Head of rock, legs of lead" Baldomir because they were the biggest fish in the pond.

    IMO, it's better to beat quality fighters that are a bit smaller than you than to move up weight classes and pick off easy targets.
     
  12. brownpimp88

    brownpimp88 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    ricky hatton is a p4p fighter, and zab judah would have probably beaten ortiz and arguello if they fought him at 147. What i meant was that instead of fighting featherweights, he fought castillo, de la hoya, corralles.

    I'm postive hatton would have ko'd flash elorde, sugar ramos and those other featherweights that carlos ortiz loved to pick on.

    Arguello dropped decisions to vilomar fernandez, marcel and arguably lost to ramirez. You're going to tell me he would go up in weight and beat judah, hatton and de la hoya, in a weight class he didnt do **** in, i dont think so.
     
  13. radianttwilight

    radianttwilight Well-Known Member Full Member

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    No.

    PBF was stellar at 130 and 135, but beating up on guys like Judah/Hatton/Baldomir/Mitchell at 147 and old DLH at 154 does not enhance his status at 130.

    You can't say he would beat Arguello at 130 because he SD'd an old-man DLH at 154.
     
  14. brownpimp88

    brownpimp88 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    at 130 arguello lost to fernandez, at 135 he got a gift against jose luis ramirez. You think the castillo-mayweather 1 fight was a bad decision? Ramirez beat arguello like 8-4.

    Mayweather was able to beat Genaro and Corralles quite easily and he removed all doubt in the castillo rematch. On top of that, he had wins over decent ifghters like chavez, manfredy and carlos hernandez. He could have stayed at lightweight and fight blown up featherweights like hamed.
     
  15. radianttwilight

    radianttwilight Well-Known Member Full Member

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    You're not reading my posts. I never said PBF wouldn't beat Arguello at 130 - what I said was that beating up on weak champs at 147 and 154 does not make him any more impressive as a 130lb fighter.

    A fighter's standing in one division, say 130 in PBF's case, is built on the fights he had at 130 - not the fights he had at 140, 147, and 154.