Floyd Mayweather vs. Roberto Duran at welterweight.

You make a good point about 'pressure', as soon as there's an opening Floyd jumps on it whether with a lead or counter and he does it time and again. It happens that it's typically pot shots and people think 'it's only a pot shot' but clean punch after clean punch builds up and does the damage. As you say 'it doesn't give the opponent time to take time out and relax'.

I don't think Duran is more skilled because he is a better puncher and better combination thrower, Mayweather is more skilled in other aspects, ie footwork, distance, defence as a whole

They aren't silly comparisons as a whole, in fact a worse comparison would be comparing the Leonard of the first fight. A fighter who dispenses with the jab, goes toe-toe, doesn't use enough movement and doesn't have a great inside defensive radar. I've focused on the Benitez example because it is closest style match up, as is probably Castillo to Duran. But Leonard's movement in the second fight also shows the difference in footspeed, can Mayweather be as athletic as Leonard? HE doesn't move as much, but when he does he is hard to close down, he also covers range very quickly with leads, so in that sense comparisons can be drawn

If you don't think Mayweather leads much you should really should revisit a few of his fights, in all of his fights he isn't an out and out counter puncher, he always leads with potshots and jabs to maintain range and hold the centre of the ring. His style changes to adapt to his opponent, sometimes he uses lateral movement looks to set traps and counter while potshotting (Castillo 2, Baldomir, DLH), sometimes he walks opponents down (Judah, Corley, Mitchell, Mosley, Ortiz), sometimes he boxes in and out and uses combinations (Gatti/Corrales/Hernandez).

Going back to the Benitez fight and looking at the tactics, the crux of Benitiz's success was keeping range, beating his opponent to the punch from range, making his opponent miss and countering him. Time and again Duran would miss with the jab or right and get countered while Benitez landed his own shots at that range. That is pretty much Mayweather 101 right there. As Duran looked to pressure and come forward, Benitez would step off in a right diagonal coming out of range to reset. Mayweather uses a similar strategy in Castillo 2. The only real disadvantage Mayweather has is he's 2inches shorter than Benitez, but he has longer arms to balance that

No way can I see anything but Mayweather outboxing Duran in the centre of the ring. The obvious counter argument is 'what about once Duran closes the gap, pushes Mayweather to the ropes and works inside'. Well for 1 that's assuming Duran get's to that range without Mayweather countering and sliding off to the side. It's also assuming he dominates at that range. And even when he does manage to do that, Mayweather could spoil with holding, turning to get off the ropes and bringing it back to the centre of the ring

 

Floyd has never fought anyone as good as duran at ww.

Duran has beaten leonard at ww who is far better than floyd.

Based on evidence I don't see how anyone can pick pbf.

 

I'm not entirely sold on Floyd being better than Benitez.

Duran is equally if not more skilled than Floyd IMO, defensivly they are very close, if we take functional defence. Duran was incredibly hard to hit clean, as was Floyd, but he did whilst coming forward on the offence, not something we can say about Floyd, who sat back.

I'd also favour Duran in the footwork stakes, narrowly, in fact they are pretty level, however at Welterweight I feel Duran is better with angles and changing them up, Floyd is more flat footed.

Have I once used Duran vs Leonard I as a comparison. You bringing this up would be like me saying your using Clottey vs Margarito to illustrate your own point.

I agree Benitez is the closest example to Floyd, as I mentioned.

And as for Leonard in the rematch. Can Mayweather really replicate such movement? Have we seen it from him? And at Welterweight do you really think Floyd's feet are that fast? I mean the Duran from the first Leonard fight looks like he could adequetly deal with the footspeed we have seen from Welterweight Floyd.

And when we have seen Floyd display such movement, it is 'running'. And I hate this word, especially when directed at Mayweather. Here I'm not usingit as a sleight on Mayweather, I'm purely saying when we have seen him use this movements in the past they are purely defensive and he offered little or no offence off the back of it. That is not what Leonard did.

I have seen plenty Mayweather, I know he can lead. Its just at Welterweight (and above for that matter) he tends to focus more on the counters than leads, much more than say Benitez.

What style would you think Mayweather would use against Duran? Wht one would be the best? Could he use more than one?

Good points, however the thing was Mayweathers output almost always depends on his opponent. Against Duran throughout most of the fight Benitez was taking the iniative with his jabs and leads to stop Duran.

Also watch Duran vs Leonard I then the Benitez fight and tell me his pressure is as effective, purely from Durans point of view (not taking into account his opponent)

If it was that easy, I think I'd favour Buchanan to turn the trick!

 

Presure fighters are made to order for Mayweather. Duran is a presure fighter.

 

How can you be so confident Leonard is "far better" than Floyd?

 

Examples?

Also you talk ****.

 

Isn't it obvious? There are so many ways Leonard outclasses Mayweather.

-Leonard has beat the better opposition by FAR, so he's more proven.
-Leonard has greater handspeed and is able to connect in combination
-Leonard is more durable of the two
-Leonard is just better

While Mayweather does have some advantages over Leonard (his defense, in paticular), it definitely wouldn't matter in this matchup. If mayweather did his shoulder roll thing and sat in a pocket with Duran, Duran would find the openings and beat Floyd up. I don't see how Floyd could ever be the fighter Leonard is

 

Leonard fought a really stupid fight the first time around, which is a big part of why Duran won. Mayweather is too good of a tactician to do that.

 

thanks for the comment on the point I made about pressure. You raise a good point too but I do think Duran is a more skilled fighter, his skills in terms of feinting, accuracy, combination punching to body and head, and to both within the same combination. I don't think Duran used defense when on the offensive the way Tyson did for example, which was using defensive moevements to counter effectively, Duran's was a better blend. He was dodging shots while throwing heavy leather all in the same motion. Mayweather has just about the best pot shots ever, but Duran was great with the pot shots too, his right hand from distance is just about one of the most accurate weapons I've seen on film, it was actually his primary tool used for sutting down the ring, which is strange for a pressure fighter, who would usually use side to side footwork to do so, like a Tyson or in the subtle manner of a Joe Lous. Duran's about the best I've seen in terms of pure skill to give my honest assessment. As I said in the original post though, this is not me saying I believe that Duran>Floyd, because to say that would be to say that he is more effective than him, and that is concerned with many things, it requires more analysis. Just because I'm saying he was more skilled doesn't make him better, skills are not everything.

You know I'm not a stan of any fighter in particular mate, I don't want this to sound this way. Mayweather is an amazong fighter, I'm constantly praising the man. I have room to admire all of these great fighters, if I like Mayweather it doesn't mean I'm pushing Duran aside, I love them both.

No Manilow

 

Duran UD for me. I think he'd probably take about 2/3rd's of the rounds.

First off, Duran is too physical for Mayweather. The fight would be taking place wherever he wanted it to. Not even the middleweights he fought could boss him around the ring. And Mayweather is a small/average sized Welterweight.

Mentally, Duran also has the edge. He is not what you would call a nice guy like Hatton or Mosley, who Mayweather clearly got into the heads of. He'd get shut the **** up quicktime if he tried the ebonical tirade on the Panamanian savage, and you can pretty much assume he wouldnt be thinking twice about getting up in his face with that nose to nose ****. Duran is 10x the thug Floyd is. Theres also no insecurity factor, as Duran practically thinks himself a God. I think many fighters are in awe of Floyd's skill and play it too cautious, not wanting to eat his crisp counters. Duran would think of him nothing more than a piece of **** on his shoe, being the arrogant, badass, ******* he is.

I always felt Mosley had the physical tools to handle Mayweather, just not the mental tools. Alot of fighters i think are afraid to be made to look silly by Mayweather, the tactic should be to relentlessly swarm-**** him. Many are put off by a failed initial attempt to do this and so revert to a technical gameplan and try to outbox and out-counter punch Mayweather, looking for a lucky shot that is never going to come about. But Duran opitimised relentlessness and i doubt he'd let up.

For once, the confidence would belong to the opponent and not Mayweather. He was hurt by an old, shot Mosley(though he recovered very well) and Duran was able to put Leonard on ***** street, so he could certainly do it to Mayweather.

I think that Mayweather would be in semi-survival mode through the early and mid rounds. His defensive skills would keep him out of any serious danger, but stylistically Duran has his number, i feel. He has the skill level to successfully swarm him, the confidence to apply those skills, the reletenlessness to dwarf him in work rate.

I think Duran dominates the scorecard for the early and mid rounds, though is frustrated by the fact he cannot put him away, makes a few mistakes pushing too hard in anger, and drops off in the later rounds. Mayweather could come into his own here and start scoring and outboxed a fatigued Duran, but it would be too little too late.

 

You can't lean or sway away from this kind of pressure. You have to fight back.

 

Leonard has fought and beaten much higher quality of fighters than floyd has.

Leonard has also displayed a higher skillset imo.

Maybe floyd is "better" than leonard but given the opposition he's faced I don't see that being a fair conclusion. If floyd beats pac and martinez it might more debatable but until then we can only go off footage and resume and to be frank, victories over benitez, duran, hearns and hagler **** all over any of floyd's victories.

 

duran

 

Its always one idiot such as yourself that messed up an interesting thread. If you don't think Floyd wins back it up with logic.

I'd go with Floyd because he has the ability to adjust. Underrated power when he decides to sit on his punches which is another trait that I think catches his opponents off guard. SRR vs Duran II. Simply box his ears off.

 

i honestly can't decide. floyd wins if joe cortez referees.