Floyd Patterson avoiding Cleveland Williams

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by SuzieQ49, Jun 14, 2015.


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  1. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Senor Pepe


    March 1964

    The New York State Boxing Commission and Independent Promotions
    attempted to put together an Elimination Tournament.

    The fighters,
    #1 Doug Jones
    #2 Floyd Patterson
    #3 Ernie Terrell
    #4 Cleveland Williams
    #5 Eddie Machen

    The 'first' proposal had Doug Jones getting a 'first round bye'.

    And Floyd Patterson was slated to fight Cleveland Williams in a
    12-Round Elimination bout.

    Ernie Terrell and Eddie Machen were also to fight.

    The contracts, designated that all fighters would receive $75,000
    each, and would appear on a Nationally Televised bout.
    This content is protected


    After agreeing to be part of a 'press conference' promoting the tournament, Floyd returned to Sweden, to perform boxing exhibitions at $2500 a pop.

    Floyd had been in Stockholm, Sweden in January 1964, when he received $65,000 to fight {and easily defeat by TKO 8} Italian Heavyweight Champion - Santo Amonti.


    Al Bolan, Independent Promoter tried to get Madison Square Garden to sponsor a Heavyweight Championship bout between Floyd and Doug Jones
    for June 1964.
    This content is protected
    , and get rewarded for a title shot by virtue of his victory over Santo Amonti (Italian Heavyweight) in January 1964.

    Ernie Terrell was the one going around calling Floyd a 'chicken'.


    Harry Markson, the Director of Boxing at Madison Square Garden bent over backwards for Floyd.

    He offered Floyd 35% of the 'live gate', plus a percentage of the Televsion rights.

    Cleveland Williams and his Manager- Hugh Benbow agreed to take less, just to get Floyd in the ring.

    May 1964

    When Floyd Patterson 'pulled the Houdini Act', that left the other '4' fighters in limbo.

    Sweden Boxing Promoter - Edwin Ahlquist convinced both Floyd and Eddie Machen to fight in Stockholm
    for a 12-Round bout on July 5, 1964.

    While Floyd and Eddie signed contracts in May 1964 -

    Doug Jones took an easy bout on May 16, 1964 - versus Leroy Green (21-16-3) in Kingston, Jamaica.

    Ernie Terrell had a bout set-up for June 17, 1964 - versus Jefferson Davis (20-5-1) in Miami Beach, Florida.

    Cleveland Williams took a bout on July 21, 1964 - versus Sonny Banks (18-5-0) for Houston, Texas.



    Floyd ended up fighting a guy he thought he could beat,,

    Floyd's hope of fighting Doug Jones for the NYSAC Championship was prevented
    by Harry Markson, as Madison Square Garden had an 'iron-clad' contract with Doug Jones,
    prevetenting him from fighting anybody other than the opponent they chose.

    Floyd was 'not' going to fight either Cleveland Williams or Ernie Terrell in Madison
    Square Garden in 1964, especially in an 'Elimination Bout'.

    That is where the Sweden Promotion Team (Edwin Ahlquist) swooped in and got
    Floyd to come back to Stockholm, and offered the inactive (and needing money)
    Eddie Machen to fight in July.

    Eddie Machen had last fought on February 17, 1964 - by scoring a (KO 1) over Duke Sabedong,
    and had been inactive for 4-months, while waiting for the 'tournament' to get underway.

    Eddie's manager, Al Silvani accepted the fight in Sweden, because they couldn't wait around
    any longer, and the 32 year-old Machen wasn't getting any younger.



    Floyd was guaranteed $75,000 to fight Cleveland, then modified to
    35% of the 'live gate', plus ancillary television fee's.

    A simple fact. Floyd did not want to fight the 'big banger'. At that time in
    his career, he was looking to fight either Doug Jones or Eddie Machen.
    Both 6' 0" 190 lb. heavyweights.


    June 1964

    Hugh Benbow (Manager for Cleveland Williams)

    "Everyone has a little bit of 'fear' in them, so I won't rail against Floyd.
    But it's pretty obvious that he avoided Cleveland and took the 'easier' route."

    "Maybe Floyd will regain his confidence in his bout with Machen. He still seams
    to be a fearful person."

    "If Floyd does beat Machen, I hope he will fight Cleveland, and not back out
    from fear, and lose his nerve again. We'll fight him for nothing if we have to



    Floyd 'signed' the deal with Harry Markson, Director of Boxing with Madison Square
    Garden in March 1964, and agreed will all parameters of the tournament.

    As of June 30, 1964 the NYSAC rankings were as follows;

    #1.. Doug Jones
    #2.. Zora Folley
    #3.. Cleveland Williams
    #4.. Ernie Terrell
    #5.. Eddie Machen
    #6.. Floyd Patterson

    Zora Folley did not want to enter the tournament.

    Floyd avoided Cleveland Williams, and Al Silvani was not 'thrilled' with his fighter
    (Eddie Machen) getting 'bean-pole' Ernie Terrell.

    Later, Eddie Machen said (from Sweden) "I waited '7' long years to get ahold of
    Floyd, and I'm not going to waste it now. Those other fellows can wait."
     
    SuzieQ49, Jun 14, 2015
    SuzieQ49, Jun 14, 2015
    #1
  2. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Bump
     
    SuzieQ49, Jun 15, 2015
    SuzieQ49, Jun 15, 2015
    #2
  3. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I would not believe a thing Pepe would write. Twist and distort. Twist and distort..........
     
    Perry, Jun 15, 2015
    Perry, Jun 15, 2015
    #3
  4. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Seems strange that Floyd would be worried by Williams? He got into a ring with better fighters like Quarry, Bonnavena, Ellis and Chuvalo.... beating all of them. Floyd beat Machen who Drew with Williams.

    Cleveland was a good 1960s campaigner. No world beater.
     
    choklab, Jun 16, 2015
    choklab, Jun 16, 2015
    #4
  5. Woller

    Woller Active Member Full Member

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    Why was Doug Jones rated as nr. one?
    He was 4-4-1 in his last 9 fights.
     
    Woller, Jun 16, 2015
    Woller, Jun 16, 2015
    #5
  6. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    I disagree that Bonavena and Chuvalo were better than Williams
    I would have a punt on Williams had they fought. The difference between those you mentioned and Williams was power .
     
    mcvey, Jun 16, 2015
    mcvey, Jun 16, 2015
    #6
  7. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Machen was sent to a nut house I'm 1963. When he came out he was nowhere near the same fighter mentally or physically. Machen was over the hill when Floyd fought him in 64. Williams fought a much better version.


    Williams was a world beater to patterson. Patterson never tried to handle a world class 6 foot 4 215 fighter with power and cat like speed.

    Patterson ducked williams...deal with it. Patterson didn't like to fight big men who could punch
     
    SuzieQ49, Jun 16, 2015
    SuzieQ49, Jun 16, 2015
    #7
  8. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    I wouldnt buy into anything Pepe/Duce wrote but I would say that Bonavena was a better fighter than Williams. I also dont think Patterson was scared of Williams or anyone else. Pepe/Duce had a ridiculous habit of taking fights that were on the table for about 30 seconds and when they didnt come off pretending that one or the other fighter ducked. It doesnt work that way. Its the same logic used in pretending Louis ducked guys like Franklin and Bivins. Sometimes schedules just dont matchup. Williams was far more protected than Patterson was. Patterson consistently fought a better class of opponents.
     
    klompton2, Jun 16, 2015
    klompton2, Jun 16, 2015
    #8
  9. jowcol

    jowcol Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Probably the same moronic 'pundits' that had Thad Spencer as the favorite going into the 1967 elimination tournament...:D
     
    jowcol, Jun 16, 2015
    jowcol, Jun 16, 2015
    #9
  10. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Williams more protected? What? No one wanted to fight the guy. Sonny Liston said so himself

    Floyd was EASILY more protected. Look at his title reign...he was thrown in against unathletic overprotected padded record limited white hopes like Harris mcneeley London radamacher instead of the highly skilled fighters like Machen and Folley and big dangerous punching Valdes and Williams
     
    SuzieQ49, Jun 16, 2015
    SuzieQ49, Jun 16, 2015
    #10
  11. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Look at Roy Harris fight with Liston. What an embarrassing performance..he showed no world class ability no punch resistance no power..it was like a man against a boy..Harris got hit and hid in a shell...

    Now contrast that with the performances of Williams Folley and Valdes vs Liston. Williams hurt Liston and broke his nose, Folley landed several hard punches in rounds 1 and 2, and Valdes nearly closed Listons eye by round 3...

    Those guys actually offered resistance
     
    SuzieQ49, Jun 16, 2015
    SuzieQ49, Jun 16, 2015
    #11
  12. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    As Klompton mentioned, that first poster tended to take bits from real articles and paint his own story around them.

    Patterson didn't "avoid" Williams, but he decided to fight Eddie Machen instead because Machen was rated #2 by the WBA (Doug Jones was #1). So, instead of entering a proposed tournament with multiple fighters, Patterson just chose the top available contender.

    Doug Jones also refused to participate in any tournament, since he was the WBA's #1 contender.

    I found some articles that relate to the first post, so you can see the basic information he used.

    In a nutshell, when Clay challenged Liston, Cassius was the WBA's #1 contender. Doug Jones was #2 (based on his two recent fights with highly-rated Zora Folley and his close loss to Clay - since many thought Jones won). If Clay was the #1 contender, apparently Jones' performance against him qualified him as the #2 contender.

    Patterson had been flattened inside a round by Liston twice, so he wasn't listed among the top two.

    After the first Ali-Liston fight, 15 months went by before Ali stepped in the ring again with Liston. The first fight was considered so shady, with Liston quitting on his stool, that the U.S. government started an investigation. Clay also announced he was joining the Nation of Islam, and started preaching their hate message. And Liston kept getting arrested by the police.

    So, basically, the boxing authority at the time (THE WBA, formerly the NBA), tried to distance itself from Ali and Liston. Boxing writers were also sick of it and demanded the U.S. government form a federal commission. The NYSAC also revoked Liston's boxing license in the state, so Liston couldn't compete there. Not that he did very often, but they wanted to flex their muscles, too.

    The WBA talked about stripping Ali, which was a huge over-reach, and holding a tournament to crown his successor. Then they wisely decided to wait until the U.S. government investigation into Ali-Liston 1 was concluded.

    At the same time, New York wanted to stage a small tourney to find a top contender for Ali, since they barred Liston, but Jones and Machen and Patterson turned them down.

    When it looked like Ali and Liston would fight again, the WBA decided to strip Ali if he signed to fight Liston. Ali did, so they stripped him.

    Then Ali got a hernia and the fight was called off. Then Liston got arrested again. With Liston in jail, Ali offered the fight to Chuvalo, but he was already signed to fight Patterson.

    Then Patterson beat Chuvalo, so Ali decided to go ahead and fight Liston. That’s when the WBA went ahead with the Terrell-Machen vacant title fight, and they offered Patterson a shot at the winner (to give it some credence, since Patterson was squeaky clean).

    The WBA incorrectly felt that the public was done with Ali and Liston, and would welcome the organization basically ignoring them. But the fighters (except for Terrell and Machen) felt Ali was still the champ. And rightly so.

    However, after Ali-Liston 2, (when Liston appeared to take a dive) all hell broke loose again. After defending against Patterson, Ali ended up fighting out of the country because, at that point, the public had turned on him.

    But here are links to the happenings in 1964.

    February 4, 1964
    WBA #2 rated Doug Jones beats McNeeley
    http://postimg.org/image/ysx85rt6b/
    http://postimg.org/image/x3o4xpdgz/
    http://postimg.org/image/b5ro3wygj/

    FEBRUARY 25, 1964 - ALI vs. LISTON 1

    March 13, 1964
    Doug Jones challenges Ali
    http://postimg.org/image/c7lbf1xyh/
    http://postimg.org/image/sjvd4sca1/

    March 22, 1964
    Patterson wants Ali
    http://postimg.org/image/cd0eufhjb/
    http://postimg.org/image/4yb321vnr/
    http://postimg.org/image/sdxll54sn/

    March 23, 1964
    WBA May Strip Ali – stage vacant title tourney
    http://postimg.org/image/fepymr8s3/
    http://postimg.org/image/7ahui0mcz/
    http://postimg.org/image/f4ig3eu5v/

    March 24, 1964
    WBA recommends Greene to head federal boxing commission
    http://postimg.org/image/vxkry5nc1/
    http://postimg.org/image/fb37p2ue9/
    http://postimg.org/image/6u3pe5ppd/

    March 26, 1964
    MSG Proposes Patterson-Williams Fight as part of elimination tourney
    http://postimg.org/image/uwxwovak9/
    http://postimg.org/image/9ok87fw3d/

    March 27, 1964
    Doug Jones rejects idea of elimination tourney
    http://postimg.org/image/rybzv2zn3/
    http://postimg.org/image/hpjip9blb/
    http://postimg.org/image/z48cb9y3z/

    April 2, 1964
    Senate investigating Ali-Liston fight (Lavorante dies)/Boxing Writers in favor of Federal Commission
    http://postimg.org/image/cz4omgwab/
    http://postimg.org/image/5ybegygdx/
    http://postimg.org/image/ryo2y7dov/

    April 3, 1964
    Americans calling Senators demanding to know why Ali isn’t joining the military
    http://postimg.org/image/bsel632nn/

    April 6, 1964
    Patterson agrees to fight #2-rated Machen/Liston arrested
    http://postimg.org/image/kcbavoket/
    http://postimg.org/image/7m72ilcgl/

    July 5, 1964
    Patterson to retire if he loses to Machen
    http://postimg.org/image/bkykt1t89/
    http://postimg.org/image/coip50dvd/
    http://postimg.org/image/euczzihbt/

    Aug. 11, 1964
    #1-rated Jones to fight Alongi, MSG offers Patterson bout with the winner
    http://postimg.org/image/b75ngloqn/

    Aug. 12, 1964
    NY Times profile of Doug Jones
    http://i.imgur.com/wJmbyHW.png

    Aug. 14, 1964
    #1-rated Jones faces late sub Billy Daniels
    http://i.imgur.com/cHmoW6M.png

    Aug. 15, 1964
    Daniels upsets Jones
    http://i.imgur.com/kZrTjFn.png

    Aug. 29, 1964
    WBA Votes to Strip Ali if he signs to fight Liston
    http://i.imgur.com/a9TQ0j3.png

    Sept. 14, 1964
    WBA Declares Heavyweight Title Vacant – Ali signs for Liston return
    http://postimg.org/image/4na9ppfmd/
    http://postimg.org/image/qaz805g0l/
    http://postimg.org/image/5fcxowjth/

    Sept. 15, 1964
    WBA Plans Tournament
    http://postimg.org/image/rhefc53yj/

    Oct. 25, 1964
    Cassius X
    http://postimg.org/image/g9787pyap/
    http://postimg.org/image/dt5etvg81/
    http://postimg.org/image/3x8x7yztt/
    http://postimg.org/image/ihq02sush/
    http://postimg.org/image/3n1eoml7l/
    http://postimg.org/image/oz8wmb55t/
    http://postimg.org/image/v1gjcstlt/
    http://postimg.org/image/vs99ikvz5/
    http://postimg.org/image/ddyqeljoh/

    Dec. 20, 1964
    Bidding begins for WBA Title fight
    http://postimg.org/image/m65l2kta1/

    Jan. 12, 1965
    Ali Offers Chuvalo Title Fight, Liston in Jail
    http://postimg.org/image/68g63mpcx/

    Jan. 14, 1965
    Ali Derides Everyone Trying to Take his Title
    http://postimg.org/image/cr9vw5kh3/

    Feb. 4, 1965
    WBA Offers Patterson the Winner of Terrell-Machen
    http://postimg.org/image/5baxv5mi1/

    March 3, 1965
    Terrell-Machen WBA Title Preview
    http://postimg.org/image/72slpylo9/

    MAY 25, 1965 - ALI vs. LISTON 2 - And afterward, there are calls to ban boxing in the U.S.
     
    Dubblechin, Jun 16, 2015
    Dubblechin, Jun 16, 2015
    #12
  13. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Very good post. Logically explained and well researched.:good
     
    choklab, Jun 16, 2015
    choklab, Jun 16, 2015
    #13
  14. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    I agree 100%:good

    Don't you think Chuvalo, quarry and Ellis were better fighters than Williams too?
     
    choklab, Jun 16, 2015
    choklab, Jun 16, 2015
    #14
  15. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Chuvalo? No way he was easy to outbox Williams in his prime beats him by decision
     
    SuzieQ49, Jun 16, 2015
    SuzieQ49, Jun 16, 2015
    #15
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