Not sure about that. Floyd actually wanted Sonny for a third time, and said if he beat Ali he'd give Liston a rematch.
Nah, I said it before. Historically becoming the youngest heavyweight champ and first to regain the title means he’s right up there but solely as a fighter, he ain’t an all time great heavyweight . Least I don’t think so
Didn't know that Swag tbh. So he actually wanted to get back in the ring with him?! The only time I actually see Floyd standing a chance, is if he'd faced Liston at the tail end of the 60 s. Patterson seemed to look stronger after his last comeback, more sturdy. And with Liston perhaps not taking things to serious.. Who knows?
Patterson always came in at top shape. He was injured most times he had a bad performance, in either his emotions or physically. But he was always in top shape, which is such a rarity in any division. I like what you mentioned earlier about Johansson being unknown- but not a nobody. Patterson for all the hell he is given for being a small heavyweight went toe to toe with some of the most solid (not the hardest but consistently solid) punchers to be in the division. His chin was liable to get cracked. But you'd be hard pressed to find a fighter with a recovery like Patterson. Who can get knocked down 5 times and hop up for a 6th and keep going, competitively. The frequency Patterson was knocked down is only rivaled by the fact that nearly every. single. damn. time. He stood back up. Patterson's heart is immeasurable. Who in the hell else would fight Liston three times?!?!
I guess the way to look at it, is that Patterson was a undoubtedly great fighter, but not necessarily, or only marginally a great heavyweight.
Can’t think of a better way to say it then this. He was a warrior and a GOOD champ. ATG though? No…ATG should dominate their division for at least a short period. He was definitely a warrior and completely underrated.
I agree with this, except that he seems to be overrated by a majority of the contributors to this forum, IMO.
I think he was. The thing about Floyd is he happened to run into Liston, who was a bigger man and that was his downfall. Sort of like how the big guys like Lennox and Fury dominate smaller guys now. It is hard to say the big guys in weight are that much better, or if they have an advantage. If they weighed the same, then that is not an advantage since the shorter guy can work the body. But if a guy outweighs someone by 20 pounds, that is an advantage in power and physicality.
Well said. From that era, I know Cleveland was looking to get a shot at the title against Liston. And it very well may have happened had one judge given him just one more round against Machen.
It’s logical to say Floyd wasn’t an ATG at HW but it’s difficult to mentally divorce him from his relative, P4P achievements at HW. As if to say, he was simply a GREAT fighter competing in the HW division, and was incredibly competitive at that but when technical push comes to technical shove, okay not an ATG as compared to the achievements of others at HW - but those “others” were legit HWs size wise while Floyd was not. I understand the questions on his chin to an extent, but really, if KDs don’t lead to actual KO losses for the most part. they’re simply KDs, no more, no less. If you knew nothing about Floyd but the KD count - you might’ve expected it to correlate to quite a few more KO losses but it wasn’t so - and Floyd still won a good many of the fights that he was KD’d in anyway. There are also several KDs in Floyd’s career that weren’t necessarily 100% due to a weak mandible. Also when talking ATGs it’s again difficult to divorce fighters like Patterson who are so deeply woven into the history of the division they competed in - and some might consider that a valid criterion anyway. So, I’m just going to say Floyd was an ATG, period.
He was a great fighter who would have been a great cruiserweight. He was not an all time great heavyweight because he was too small.
