Floyd Patterson V Cleveland Williams?

Stopped 8 times, 3 times prior to being shot
By Liston x2 and Satterfield.
He wasn't Chuvalo ,but he was pretty durable imo.

 

What has shooting to do with his chin?

He was stopped by LHW Satterfield, Liston x2, Ali, Mac Foster x2 and Al Lewis.

Hardly durable, hell I would bet that even Patterson was more durable guy.

 

The gunshot nearly killed him, did a lot of permanent damage to his body, he was never the same fighter after he recovered from the gunshot.

 

some issues

Patterson ducked Williams?

This simply is not at all true. Much is made of Rademacher. Obviously, Patterson should not have defended against Rademacher, but Williams was not on the radar at this point. The top contenders were Machen, Folley, and Harris. If not them, vets still winning fights and with good careers behind them like Valdes and Satterfield would have made sense. Williams had not established himself yet.

Someone posted London and Williams were on the same level in the spring of 1959. That is not true. The NBA ratings are on box rec. London was the #4 rated contender going into the Patterson fight. He had been rated #2 before losing to Cooper. He gained the rating in 1958 by stopping the #3 rated contender, Pastrano. Pastrano had been rated in the top five since 1955. Williams was unrated in early 1959 by the NBA. He never in his entire career posted a win over a man rated as highly as #3. And if not London, the worthy contender would have been Charley Powell, rated #7 and coming off an impressive KO of Valdes, or even Valdes, off his overall career.

McNeeley was a dubious defense in 1961, although this was obviously a tax driven warm-up fight before a 1962 defense against Liston, who was slaughtering Westphal on the same show as build up. Williams was #6 and certainly a better contender than McNeeley, but there were better available. Machen was #2. Lavorante was #3. Lavorante was coming off a KO of the #4 ranked Folley (and Williams in his entire career never beat a man rated as highly as #4) and Patterson had been validly offered big money to defend against Lavorante in Los Angeles. Cleroux was coming off wins over Chuvalo and KO's over Harris, Carter, and Miteff. He was on at least the same level as Williams but rated one place behind him by the NBA, though one place above him by The Ring. No reason to single out Williams over Lavorante or Cleroux if one is going to accuse Patterson of ducking.

D'Amato

Lots of posts telling us that D'Amato avoided Williams and was afraid of Williams. No evidence given and I doubt if Cus confided his private fears to anyone on this board.

Truthfully, it is possible Cus would have had little idea who Williams even was in the 1950's. Williams was fighting in the Texas and Southern boondocks and not on TV. Cus and the mainstream American boxing press might have had little knowledge of him.

Williams

I just re-watched the two fights between Liston and Williams. Williams had the most impressive physique I have ever seen on a heavyweight boxer. He makes Sonny look clunky by comparison. Unfortunately, his skills were not at the same level. He throws left hooks from out of the window (in Chuvalo's phrase), leaving himself wide open. He doesn't seem to know what to do with his right. He lost balance and floundered at times. His defense fell apart under attack. I believe he had a decent chin and punch, but not top level.

Williams had respectable, but not outstanding, performances against a young Terrell, and Machen. A contender, but not an outstanding one on any level. But I have seen him rated as high as #31 all time (the Ring) and even #22. The gap between the rating and the record is greater than any one else. Why? Could be body beautiful impresses some? Could be all the ready-made or manufactured excuses?

Literally hundreds of heavywights scored more impressive wins.

 

What has that to do with chin, he was stopped by LHW in his 20s?

Ron Lyle was stabbed to death in prison, died twice on the operating table before even starting boxing, then started pro at age of 30 and never made excuses or his fans unlike Williams fans.

Ron started late unlike Williams and started with same kind of injury, before even turning pro so he had rougher time than Williams yet he or his fans never made any excuses, you know why, because he didn't fight Liston.

Hype about Williams was created just because Liston, to make Liston looking good and acting like he fought someone good, had Williams fought Marciano and lost no one would praise Marciano or Williams as good win over good oponent.

 

Well said my friend.