Floyd Patterson vs Cleveland Williams

In championship fights they both underwhelmed. Severely. Usually win or lose a title fight, the career goal, brings the best out of a challenger. Now ok, the shooting thing can come up, ok. But do you really think Williams of the Terrell fight would have done much better? Ernie could not miss him at all. Wherever his kisser was Ernie had a punch on it. Ali always would have landed more blows than Ernie could. And so it turned out. Bullet hole or not Williams was always far too statuesque for Ali. He was too easy to hit for somebody like Ali at any time in his career.

20 years and how many fights though? Williams was one of the most experienced 20 year olds there has ever been. Williams and Satterfeild had fought just days apart weeks earlier and just as ready to fight that night. Satterfeild had lost about half his fights, was ten years older, 20lb lighter, giving away a reach advantage and coming off a draining loss. Williams at 33-1 was coming off a revenge win over Sly Jones and had the same number of wins that Satterfeild had. Cry me a river about him being a substitute!

well Mike Tyson was. Have you seen photos or descriptions of Williams at that point? Williams was always considered a remarkably well developed man.

give me some wins that prove this.

They say Williams was a bit crazy too. Same difference.

in your opinion. There’s no evidence that proves this. In fact Valdes at the end of the road, on the skids, actually gave equal resistance against Liston as the prime Williams. Both got creamed in the same round by Sonny in back to back fights.

what evidence? Back it up with a fight report of Williams beating somebody Floyd couldn’t.

 

Ugh

 

a few points raised

1--I think Williams was a level above London. The Williams of the Ali fight was definitely a much slower shadow of the pre-gunshot Williams.

2--On the other hand, I see no good reason to rate Williams above Valdes. Valdes just fought much tougher opposition, got higher in the rankings, and stayed in the rankings longer. This sort of comparison indicates how difficult it is to compare fighters sometimes. Williams has a thin resume like Johansson. Valdes is much more proven, both for good, and also for bad. There are a lot of losses.

3--I don't see quite dwelling on Satterfield this much, as he certainly was capable of upsetting men very close to the top of the division. He is much like Valdes with the good and the bad, only more so. You never knew what Bob would show up. At his best, though, he could beat Harold Johnson, Valdes, Bob Baker, and other top men. Williams might have had a lot of fights, but hadn't really cut his teeth against top-level competition. I don't think this loss at this time proves all that much. And I wouldn't jump to the flip side conclusion that an older Williams would have necessarily handled Satterfield.

4--The difference between Johansson and Williams, both with somewhat thin resumes, is that when Ingo got his shot at the top level guys, he rose to the occasion, and blew them out, leaving no doubts about the victories. Williams did have a stoppage against a young Terrell, but in the Terrell rematch and the Machen fight, he went to close decisions. Different folks will see these close fights and judge them differently. Williams just failed to rise to the occasion as a puncher.