Floyd Patterson vs Cleveland Williams

Not true, Miteff was rated top 10



"Cleveland (Big Cat) Williams, who shattered the title hopes of 7th ranked Alex Miteff with a 5th round TKO, set up a howl today for a shot at champion Floyd Patterson. If Williams ever looked as though he deserved a shot at the title, it was Tuesday night. He took command of the fight from Miteff from the start, opened a bad cut over his left eye in the 2nd, floored him for eight counts in the 3rd and 4th, and was beating him badly when referee Ernie Taylor mercifully ended it 1:32 deep into the 5th." -United Press International

• After this bout, Texas Boxing Enterprises, the promoter of the bout, sent Floyd Patterson an offer of $100,000 or an option of 40% of the gate to meet Cleveland Williams.

 

Aging Harold Johnson? Johnson would go on to put up perhaps his career peak performance two fights later against a Doug Jones. Literally a master class performance. Where do you get this nonsense from?

Machen was definitely close to his prime entering the Williams fight. After the fight, he went off the grid..ended up in a nut house and took 14 months off..he was never the same when he returned. But Machen entering the Williams fight was coming off some big wins over good contenders and was motivated, and in top shape.

Williams knocked out Ernie Terrell, don't forget that. terrells only knockout loss until 1973. He also won 48-45 on my scorecard in the Terrell rematch. I thought he went 2-0 against Terrell. Terrell was a WBA champion and one of the top contenders of the entire 1960s. Williams strong showing in two fights against Terrell supports his cause as an elite contender

 

"the Miteff ranking is beyond a complete mystery to me"

I think I know but have no proof. He was a guy who appeared on TV quite a bit. There was interest by the powers that be to have him a rated fighter so that the TV network could hype a "rated contender" as a sales pitch when spotlighting next week's coming attraction.

 

Between Archie Moore, and Ingo #1, what "contenders" that Cus propped up for Floyd to fight, were substantially better than Williams?

 

I don’t think any of them would have beaten Williams in a head to head matchup. Radamacher would have gotten destroyed, London wasn’t anywhere near athletic enough to keep up, Harris was a bit of a paper tiger and his limitations would have gotten exposed by Williams power and speed. Jackson probably had the best shot but he was erratic, mentally unstable, and just not that good. I spoke to the late Joe Rein who saw a lot of Jackson live. Jackson was a wack job and was never as good as his record suggested. Still Jackson when he was “on” had the stamina, strength, and durability to maybe steal one from Williams, but I fully expect Williams to do to Jackson what Valdes did.

 

We all scored for Terrell when we watched that fight on YouTube. Most of us gave Ernie 6 or 7 rounds. It was a hard fought all the way and there were close rounds but the clearest rounds were all Terrell. He landed more punches every single round.

 

The challengers Between Archie Moore and Ingo that “cus propped up for Floyd” they all had better wins than Cleveland Williams ever did.

Moore beat Baker and Valdes. Jackson beat Baker, Layne and Charles. Radmacher went on to beat Chuvalo. Harris beat pastrano and Holman. London beat Pastrano and Folley. Moore was #1 contender. Jackson was #1 contender. Harris was #3 contender. London was #5 contender. Ingo was #1 contender. I don’t think Williams was ever rated higher than any of those guys before 1959. In fact I know he was not.

The Radmacher fight came weeks after the Jackson fight to save going into training camp twice. Mcneely was poor but Floyd and Sonny had already signed. They both took ludicrous opposition on the same show as an appetiser to their upcoming fight. Westphal and mcneely were the sacrificial lambs. Nobody can knock mcneely without knocking Westphal.

If Williams ever challenged Floyd what was his signature win? Billy Daniels on points? By the time Williams was considered a good enough contender it was during all those rematches between Liston-Floyd-Ali-Liston that took up all of 1962, 1963, 1964 and 1965.

 

When he was rated higher, and unbeaten, Machen was creamed in one round by Ingo Johansson yet you pipe up about Williams earning a draw years later with the same crushing knockout victim?

You put Ingo down so where does it leave Williams?


It’s like making a case for somebody drawing with marvis Frazier after Tyson beat him.

 

That’s not true read the comments on YouTube. The majority scored if for williams. He landed all the meaningful punches and had Terrell in danger often

Williams won all the clear rounds

 

Ingo gets a lot of credit for beating Machen. The win just doesn’t get overblown to the point where some people like you are pointing to this win as a reason he would beat sonny Liston

 

The comments from members on this forum are worth more substance than people posting on YouTube. respected posters on this forum overwhelmingly had Williams losing on points.

 

If Terrell landed more punches every round, even the rounds he lost, how do you decipher the clear rounds for Williams? You can’t. You could argue The best rounds williams had Terrell still came back at him and outscored him. Everyone has different views because many rounds were so hard fought. Terrell was hurt maybe twice. Williams hurt once. But Williams was not even in the fight the first two rounds. Which is why knowledgable observers on this forum overwhelmingly voted for Terrell. I thought Terrell did unfairly neutralise Williams with his mauling, but it did not make the difference. Terrell was better.

 

Which is nowhere near as ludicrous as talking up a guy who drew with Marvis Frazier after Tyson brained him -which is the same thing as talking up williams draw with Machen.

 

You do realize most of the people scoring the fight and commenting on YouTube are boxing fans just like us?

I challenge you to post a thread and take the opinion of 20 posters and their scorecards for Williams-Terrell II


Give me 20

 

Terrell was hurt more than twice, and he was knocked down. Stop saying most knowledgeable posters on this forum had Terrell winning until you have conducted a poll with at least 20 people in it. Give me 20 names.


Williams won the fight in my opinion. He decked Terrell and had him holding on several times. Terrell came on at the end, but he hit on the break and threw some rabbit punches that were characteristic of his style of fighting. Ernie moved and boxed well but also clutches too often. I gave Williams the huge edge in power shots. Williams landing several more power shots was the difference.