Floyd Patterson vs Ron Lyle

Hi Buddy.
Seeing as swag, seemed to think your thoughts on the fight were nonsense, which is a tad harsh I would say, I mean there's a lot of nonsense posted on the forum for sure, but I don't see your post as that, your reply to him was thoughtful and informative, and without rancour, I applaud you for that, also despite the slightly over use of " back/front foot " you make some valid and salient points, without bias, so for me your post was on a par with most, if not all, your previous work, I thank you.
stay safe Devon, chat soon buddy.
Mike.

 

Patterson probably wins a tight decision decision this is a dangerous fight but the size difference isn't insurmountable. Weight classes are a spectrum

 

I would expect Floyd Patterson to go down once in this fight, but, in spite of the styles advantage, I do not expect Ron Lyle to keep him down. I consider Floyd a class above Ron. I am going with Floyd Patterson by decision win, but the one 10-8 round for Lyle could keep the decision close.

 

Love how mike just occasionally appears and gives the most well mannered and humble response to a random post then disappears for another week

 

I’ll rewatch his Chuvalo fight at some point today and give a new breakdown on Patterson vs Lyle based on how he approached that fight.

 

Listen, guys, gals, everyone on this thread, we all know what Floyd Patterson was doing in the bathroom, late at night, grunting like that, over and over again, and was it pretty? Maybe. But the sound clearly upset his family.

 

I’ve watched a few rounds of that fight, enough to see what his gameplan was, and he kept the volume low, was moving around and fighting in spurts as to give Chuvalo less chance of landing something big, but he wasn’t scoring or doing much work by way of landing when he was moving, it was done because, the longer he stays in the pocket, the more chance Chuvalo had of hurting him, so he would only do it so often.

But all of the work Patterson did, he had to get inside to get it off, and when I was watching, he’s kind of there for the uppercut.

He was able to win against Chuvalo, albeit with some rocky moments and an overall conpetitive fight, but I feel like Lyle’s combinations are a bit more refined and the technique is better, he’s better at shortening them up an putting them together than Chuvalo.

Patterson would have to approach the fight with the intention of letting Lyle gas himself out and really not doing much early and mid rounds, just focusing on not getting hit clean, to then try to take out a tiring Lyle, but he’s gonna have to try to keep Lyle off at some point, and to do so, he has to get in to get work off, he doesn’t have it in his arsenal to throw and get work off whilst going backwards, he has to stop his backwards momentum to get work off, and if he’s doing that every time he has to keep Lyle off, I just think Lyle’s gonna land at some point, and I think it’s gonna by within 5 rounds.

Quarry for example, didn’t have to stop going backwards to get work off and keep him off, so he could continue racking up points whilst going backwards, and the went inside when he felt it was ok to do so, he didn’t have to rely on going inside and stopping a his backwards momentum every time he wanted to get work off, and when you have to go inside every time you want to have success, you’re putting yourself in the firing line far more often, especially for uppercuts, which Lyle certainly has.

Quarry, because he had the choice, did it more when Lyle was tiring, and when Lyle wanted a rest himself, so that made a massive difference as opposed to what would be Patterson having to do it when Lyle is fresh, and is ready to throw.

Also, I think, if Chuvalo had success, landed decent punches at times and made it very competitive, I just think ‘What if Lyle was landing those punches?’ Like I said, he had better technique and short punches, and better combinations, and he also hit quite a bit harder than Chuvalo.

 

Patterson came in at 182 for the first Ingemar fight—the last time he fought at that weight. After that, he was consistently in the 190s, with only five exceptions. He certainly wasn’t overweight at 197 against Quarry, and that weight didn’t hinder his performance in the slightest. Quarry having a 17 pound weight advantage is errant non-sense.

Spencer wasn’t some manufactured hype job—if he were, he wouldn’t have even been included in the WBA tournament, especially after pulling off an upset over a former WBA champion.

You don’t seem particularly well-versed on Patterson. The 182-pound claim is way off, and it’s equally wrong to say he was limited to pressure fighting. Patterson was versatile—able to switch gears and outbox opponents, as he did against Chuvalo and others later in his career. Ali even remarked after watching that fight that Patterson might’ve beaten Liston if he’d fought that way. That’s almost certainly not true—Liston was a different level—but it was more than enough to handle someone of Lyle's caliber (Chuvalo was likely at a higher level than Ron as well. More wins overrated contenders, and a KO over a prime Quarry, while Lyle couldn't do anything with a past it one).

This logic doesn't hold up. By that reasoning, since Lyle knocked out Shavers—who had a win and a draw against Young—Lyle should've dominated Young. But that clearly didn’t happen.

Shavers also performed far better against a fresher Ellis, stopping him in one round, while Lyle went the distance with a faded version. Beating Shavers doesn’t mean Lyle inherits his wins—especially not imagined ones. In fact, there’s a strong case that Shavers was the better head-to-head fighter overall.

He had a rusty Foreman down twice and still couldn’t close the show. Right after the first knockdown, he launched a wildly telegraphed uppercut that completely missed—even with Foreman right in front of him.

And as stated before, Shavers stopped Ellis in a single round, while Lyle had to go the distance with a more faded version.

 

Looking at Patterson's record, I will say that his best weight was a few more than I said, but I still don t think him being above 190lbs was to his advantage, I think around 188lbs was probably his best weight based on his frame. He looked noticeably tired against Chuvalo, yes fighters get tired, but I've seen him carry stamina better.

Re: Thad Spencer point:
Loads of people have conned their way to a ranking, just gotta get a win against someone who is ranked, even if they're ranked low, and if they're off form/not confident, they can certainly get beat by someone who's not particularly good.

Re: Patterson’s versatility:
I meant he can only get work off when he chooses to come off the back foot, he has to go inside and stop his movement, he can't punch off of movement, yes he can move about, but it's mainly done when it's risky to stay in the pocket too long, he's not moving with the intent of getting work off on the backfoot. Quarry wasn't past it against Lyle, he looked sharp, strong and his timing was on it in that fight, that was his best win and most impressive performance, and Quarry was able to beat him because he had the choice of when he wanted to punch off of the backfoot, backfoot counter Lyle when Lyle missed, and then mix it when Lyle wanted a rest. Quarry didn't have to put himself in the firing line with a fresh Lyle to get work off, he could land from further away.

Re: Your point about the best KO/TKO wins of Lyle and Patterson:
I know, that was a point against when you were insinuating that Lyle's best stoppage/knockout win was a mediocre name, I was showing that Lyle's best KO was of a similar quality if not better than Patterson's best KO.

Re: Your point about Lyle missing punches against a hurt Foreman:
Foreman has subtle, but very good survival skills.

 

Hi Swag.
Have been avidly following your back and forth with Devon, and must say you both are pulling out the stops, with on point analysis of both fighters styles and respective achievements in various fights, has made for one of the best of the genrie, and both of you making salient observations to bolster your claims, all good and fair I would say, I have been an avid and interested listener, but just as I would if Devon were to say something that I think might be slightly wide of the mark, I will also do same with your goodself, so with that in mind, I have a issue with your comment that Chuvalo KOd a prime Quarry, you surely must know that the " KO " was a bit strange, there was not a lot in the fight as I recall, until Quarry got knocked down, then it went a bit wonky, Quarry seemed to lose concentration as he was being counted over, he looked like he could have risen and fought on, but for reasons unknown, he chose to leave it too late to beat the refs count, left all observers a little confused, so not a genuine KO in most people's eyes, and as for the Lyle fight, quarry was only 28 and in good form preceding the fight, so to say he was " past it " doesn't feel right for me, no undo bais from me, you know me better than that, just couldn't let them points go unchallenged, that said, like you, and like your posts.
stay safe buddy, chat soon.
Respectfully Mike.