Floyd was terrified of Margo

No arguments there.... Thurman would have been a great win against a prime world champion but Floyd probably would have been subjected to unfair criticism even if he beat Keith.

 

Well if he had been it would have been unwarranted. Thurman checks all the boxes of a legit opponent. He was prime, big and good. Yea he's no ATG and never will be, but he's real solid. And I think Mayweather would have beaten him too, but he ducked Thurman.

 

Three weeks or so after the Zab fight, he turned down an offer to box Tony on August 12. Ample time to prepare, if he'd wanted the fight. (The title Zab had passed to Floyd was worth nothing - it was only in Zab's possession because Baldo hadn't paid the IBF's fee). Baldo wasn't lined up for another 3 months or so.

It didn't pay him better, as far as I'm aware. And I never bought the 'Baldo was lineal' excuse - everyone knew who the more creditable scalp was even back then, and it wasn't Tata.


As I've said, most 'Floyd ducked _____' stories are rooted in BS, but he did avoid Margarito, however one rationalizes it. All else is apologism.

 

I'd take the Manny win over a hypothetical Thurman win. Maybe even the Mosley2010 win, too. I wouldn't have objected to Floyd boxing Thurman, as he was a true welterweight contender in his prime, and it certainly would've been preferable to Berto, but Keith hasn't especially impressed me and I'd have expected Floyd to give him a bit of a lesson back then.

 

I think he ducked Thurman but not out of fear....I can’t call it. He faced Berto and Guerrero over Keith which weren’t any more popular.....but possibly able to dictate a higher percentage since they were not champions or undefeated?

 

Floyd was lining up Baldomir because he had the lineal title. The Zab fight was more for winning his first world title at 147 and because there was such a demand for the fight with Judah.

Baldomir was in Floyd’s crosshairs after Zab lost to him. Right after the loss and the lineal title switched hands from Judah to Baldomir...Carlos began negotiations with Gatti. Margarito was available but not worth the risk of delaying the plan to become the lineal champion at welterweight by beating Carlos. So he waited.

I think Floyd got a bigger paycheck for Baldomir than what he was offered for Margarito. Not by much but I think Bob offered Floyd $6M for Margarito and Floyd got $8M for Baldomir.

The window for Floyd/Margarito was very small. Maybe a year? In 2007 and that was the year he moved up to 147. If he did “duck” Margarito.....it wasn’t because he was shook...he ducked him for more attractive trinkets and bigger money.

 

The Tony offer was $8,000,000. Same money. Lineage aside, nobody would've given Floyd any less credit for beating Tony than for facing Baldo (rather the opposite), and it wouldn't have reduced his chances of landing DLH any... Unless, of course, he'd lost to Tony - and therein lies the rub.

Mid-late 2005 to mid-late 2006. It wasn't a prospect in 2007, with Floyd slated to meet DLH in the first half and Tony coming unstuck against Paul Williams in the summer, or even the next year.

He ducked him because he was a bigger problem than Tata.

You think Thurman was a guy to fight coming off the Zaveck win? Floyd was already signed to box Guerrero by the time Keith got done with Zaveck, and, by your own reasoning, Canelo and Maidana were more marketable foes than Thurman in 2013 and 2014. Granted, the Maidana rematch was pointless, but Showtime had as much to do with that as Floyd, with their campaign promoting the idea that Maidana had a case for winning the first fight.

It would've been nice if Floyd had given us Thurman, but that last fight of the six-fight deal was plainly a contract filler, with everyone involved having made their money from the Mayweather-Pacquiao fight. May-Pac was the pinnacle and the endgame of the deal, and Floyd was uninterested beyond that.

 

^ I should add,

Floyd moved up to welter in 2005. Mitchell was his first 147lb fight.

 

Correct...2005-2006..That’s what I meant. I thought Bob offered Floyd $6M? But I will take your word for it. The fight with Marg was definitely more risky....but didn’t offer any upside. Had Antonio been the lineal champion Floyd would have been more willing to tussle with Margarito but he was the WBO champion. Floyd has been very vocal about not really caring about the WBO strap.

Realistically....Floyd had a game plan that Lead up to the big money fight with DLH. So of course Mayweather was going to follow that path which did not include Margarito. Could he have altered the roadmap? Sure....but it would have had to have made sense for Floyd to take a detour. $8M for a WBO title for a more risky opponent vs $8M for the lineal title agaisnt a safer opponent? It’s really a no brainer when views through that lens.

Thurman was a world champion who was undefeated which was the only selling point. I believe he was the WBO world champion at that time as well so really Keith being undefeated was the key in making that fight palatable for Mayweather.

Canelo and Miadana were bigger names than Keith who was just bubbling as a name in Boxing at that time.....so I totally understand why guys like Miadana and Canelo had the inside track...but Floyd fighting Berto over Thurman was interesting. I guess Andre was his retirement fight having felt he had accomplished everything he wanted.

 

Widely reported, but here ya go, [url]http://www.espn.com/sports/boxing/news/story?id=2420382[/url].

No detour was even required. Floyd gets the DLH fight if he beats Tony just the same as if he beat Tata. There was more respect within the industry for a Mayweather-Margarito fight than for a Mayweather-Baldomir fight, and Tata certainly wasn't a bigger name in the public consciousness than Tony.

Tony being by far the bigger threat to the apple cart is much more a factor in Team Floyd steering it around him than the lineage (which is just a convenient way for them to rationalize the duck).

Pretty much. Fight #6 ended up being contract filler after everyone made their money with May-Pac.

 

My memory is shot. The Margarito fight deviated from the original plan which was to win the lineal title at 147 which was originally held by Zab. Floyd had always planned to become the lineal champion and he wanted to win it by beating Judah, but Zab took on Carlos who wasn’t supposed to win and that caused the Floyd to adjust his course. Carlos was never in the original plans but since he upset Judah he automatically became infused into Floyd’s ultimate plan....Margarito was never really considered unless he brought something to the table that Floyd couldn’t turn down.

Within the Boxing world the Margarito fight was being pushed but Floyd doesn’t respond to being pushed. Just look at the way he handled the Manny Pacquiao fight back in 2009. He had a plan and it was to win the lineal title and have that going into negotiations with DLH to give him a better position to ask for more money. If he beat Margarito and was the WBO welterweight champion his leverage wouldn’t have been as great going into negotiations with Oscar.

I don’t think Floyd would have lost to Tony....Would it have been a bigger test than Baldo? Absolutely but it Carlos was just a smarter option that aligned with his original plans....only it was Baldomir instead of Zab that he won the lineal title from.

As a fan....I would have much rather seen Mayweather/Margarito than Mayweather/Baldomir But I understand why Floyd chose Carlos over Tony. Having a lineal world title on the resume is more impactful than a WBO strap

 

When the lineage ends up in the hands of a Carlos Baldomir, there's nothing to stop a guy adjusting his plan to incorporate a much more creditable scalp instead, especially if it doesn't interfere with his real goal. Lineal wasn't the be-all and end-all for Floyd (he wasn't lineal at 140), the DLH payday was. He got the Tony offer months before the Tata fight was signed, and he refused it because he wanted a path of less resistance.

However we rationalize it, Floyd just didn't want to know Tony Margarito at a point in time in which it was a justifiable fight to make.

 

True....but that’s why he still beat Zab, then beat Baldomir. Floyd has won 4 lineal titles...as a JR lightweight, lightweight, welterweight and JR Middleweight.

Floyd only had 3 fights at 140 so he kind of blew through that division with the intention of catching DLH. I think he would have sought to establish himself a bit more at 140 if DLH was there for the purpose of having a stronger position to negotiate.

Floyd refused Margarito because he was forced to extend his original plan plan due to Carlos becoming the lineal champion by beating Zab and it didn’t make sense to stretch it out any further when the end goal was Oscar. #1....Tony could have been a grueling fight. Any injuries or time needed to rest after a war would add additional time and he didn’t want anyone else to take his spot to fight DLH. Floyd was focused on Oscar and he was dialed in on that fight. Tony was not part of the bigger picture...neither was Carlos originally...he just took advantage of Zab’s miscalculation

 

As I said, beating Tony gets him Oscar just as soon as beating Baldo did. The only meaningful difference is the levels of credit and risk involved.

Oscar hadn't yet gotten past Mayorga when Floyd refused Margarito. Floyd could've boxed Tony on August 12 (sooner than he boxed Baldo) or on the same November 4 date on which he ended up boxing the Argentine. Floyd and DLH didn't fight 'til the following May, that's 6 months at least. DLH didn't exactly have bigger fish to fry in 2007.


I'm not trying to throw Floyd in a basket of eternal disgrace here, but it is a duck. They happen, even among great fighters. If people can claim that Ray Leonard ducked Aaron Pryor (when the opposite is factually true - thanks for nothing, Legendary Nights), why can't we just admit that Floyd wanted no parts of Tony when it was a viable fight?

 

Beating Tony vs Bald still would have netted Floyd, but without the Lineal Title. Floyd wanted to have some added leverage at the negotiating table and the WBO title Tony was holding didn’t carry as much weight as the lineal title carries which Baldo has.

DLH was really the only big PPV Star in the game at that time. DLH was the Original “Money Mayweather” so there were always someone calling out DLH and DLH wasn’t really One who ducked too many people. Floyd just wanted to take advantage of the money train and piggyback off his name to broaden his fan base which it did for him.

Similar to how Crawford was itching to get at PAC before Loma....but Horn threw a ****** wrench in both of their plans to leverage the drawing power of PAC and his legendary status as on the best ever to bolster their popularity, legacy and bankroll in a 3 for 1...passing of the torch kind of fight.

I don’t think Ray ducked Pryor at all....different tracks...different lanes...it just wasn’t meant to be. But I would have loved to see that fight as well. But I don’t consider it a duck.