Floyd was terrified of Margo

Wrong he wasn't less marketable. Margo was a nobody he did a PPV with Shotgun gomez that did 25K in PPV sales. You're grossly overvaluing Margo's name recognition at that time. He wasn't any more well known than Baldo in fact he was less well known. You're trying to argue that Baldo's fights against Zab and Gatti were smaller events than Margo with Clottey, Cintron and Shoutgun Gomez. Pull up the ratings for those fights and we can end this bull****. I deal in facts you're dealing in what you want to be true.

 

The promotion, in desperation, tried to pimp the "7 year win streak". Still sold less than Floyd-Gatti, even after they had Baldo beat the tar out of Gatti on regular HBO. That says it all. Nobody was any more enthusiastic for Floyd-Baldo in real time than they have been in hindsight. Anyone who was following developments at the time knows this, and will admit as much if they are not hindered by a predisposition.

Margarito was a more marketable opponent, and more credible in the eyes of the industry (at the time, not just in hindsight), and that's not even arguable. Floyd has been using Mexican dance partners for sales for a long time, so are we really arguing that Floyd vs. an all-action Mexican doesn't get more buys than Floyd vs. a nondescript Argentine toiler? 350,000-375,000 buys (or better) is better than 325,000.

(Baldo's win against Clottey was a DQ win, for the record, and the average punter could have cared less about it.)

That's a simplification of how things work. Margarito being a Mexican on a US PPV > Baldo's wins, in marketing terms. That's the bottom line. Even with a (DQ) win over Clottey, a win over Zab and a regular HBO showcase against Gatti, Baldo couldn't even draw Floyd as many buys as Gatti had. And that was entirely predictable. It was not a shock that Floyd-Baldo sold less than Floyd-Gatti.

It's become a pretty asinine argument when we're trying to contend that a fight with Baldo was as marketable and credible as a fight with Margarito in 2006. That view is completely antithetical to the reality of the climate at the time, and it shows in the Floyd-Baldo buyrate, which failed to even equal the Floyd-Gatti buyrate, even after Baldo had pummeled Gatti on regular HBO in a bid to beef up Baldo's name.

Do you think Hatton did his best UK PPV numbers with PBF because anybody in the UK knew who "that Lloyd Mayflower" was (outside of a hardcore few)? If so, you'd be wrong. Floyd was anonymous in the UK, and yet, Hatton did his best numbers with him. Because it's about selling an idea, it's about sizzle. Baldo had no sizzle.

Tony absolutely was more marketable than Baldo. Even after pounding Gatti on regular HBO, Baldo couldn't draw Floyd equal numbers to those he'd drawn with Gatti.

In boxing, it's about what you can sell to your audience. A Mexican world titlist with a string of action-packed US TV appearances is inherently more marketable to a US audience than Carlos Baldomir at any point in his career, and anyone who argues differently is kidding himself.

How else do you think Floyd could be offered 8 million for a Margarito fight, in spite of Tony not having a precious Judah or Gatti win on his record?


I don't need expletives to make my point, friend. Those with reasonable arguments don't require expletives. Those only suggest lack of rationality on the part of the correspondent who uses them.

 

You're still not addressing the point the point is Margo had never displayed any relevant numbers or buy rates. No one expected Baldo-PBF to draw more than Gatti-PBF, I could argue that even in defeat Gatti was still more well known than PBF was even after PBF beat him up until the Oscar fight. Baldo-PBF numbers weren't bad at all so I don't understand why you're trying to downplay them. They did light years more numbers than Margo-Shotgun Gomez PPV and the Margo-Cintron PPV that did less numbers as well. Say what you want about the 8 million Arum offered to fight Margo but he was still offered more money and PPV % to fight Baldo those are facts.

You're not doing anything but speculating that a Mexican fighter and unknown Mexican fighter I might add in Margo would have done more numbers than Baldo-PBF did. Margo was unknown he had no fights against well known fighters like Baldo did with Zab and Gatti, those are facts.


Lastly PBF didn't start looking for Mexican dance partners until he beat Oscar and even then he only used those dates because he fought none Mexicans on those dates as well. He fought Hatton Gatti Zab and Baldo on PPV and not on Cinco De Mayo or Mexican Independence Weekend before he fought Oscar on PPV.

 

I couldn't agree that Gatti was a bigger star than Floyd after Floyd-Gatti. Gatti-Baldo went on regular HBO, after all. Gatti was a cult fighter and a great draw at the gate who got hammered in his sole PPV appearance.

Floyd was a modest PPV star, coming off the Gatti fight. Of course Floyd-Baldo did better numbers than Margarito-Gomez and Margarito-Cintron. Floyd was the reason for those 325,000 buys, not Baldo.

The point is, who could the A side (Floyd) have done better numbers with? It's Tony. A Mexican titlist with an exciting style and a run of TV appearances is more marketable to a US audience than Carlos Baldomir was. And maybe that is unfair on Baldo, because he was a worthy guy who did come to fight and tried to knock his opponents out, but it's still the reality.

The speculation is sound speculation, with a basis in an understanding of the audience and how fights are marketed.

(I've seen no reliable documentation to suggest that Floyd was offered more base or PPV % for Baldo than for Tony.)

Yeah, I'm aware. The point I was making is that he would look to guys of Mexican heritage for a reason. Mexican guys with world honours tend to make marketable opponents.

 

I don't get why fighters would choose, for their first fight in a new weight class, basically a blown up fighter from the weight below. That was a garbage fight BTW.

 

Little known, but Margarito was offered to Floyd then, too. To Bob's chagrin, Floyd selected Sharmba from a list of guys that HBO was willing him to pay him several milli for.

 

It was all in preparation to fight Zab who himself was a blown up fighter from a weight below. Mitchell was a southpaw like Zab and considered slick like Zab. PBF wanted to fight Zab for years even when Zab was at 140 he moved up to 140 and 147 to chase Zab and others.

 

And this is a fair enough point. Floyd's decision to face Sharmba in his welter debut in fall 2005 is more reasonably rationalized away than the 2006 Margarito debacle.

 

At that time DLH was making $25M per fight which was more than the premier heavyweights of the mid to late 90’s. DLH was the catalyst to the paradigm shift that created more popularity for the lower weight classes. To take it to the next level and maximize the new market profitability Oscar needed a dance partner that could grab the attention of a broader fan base and Floyd for the mold to a “T”.

Floyd wasn’t a big name, but he was established as the best p4p boxer who was undefeated and took on the villain role in a way no one has ever done in Boxing. However, in order for Floyd to maximize his leverage he needed the feather in his cap at the weight class where DLH made his greatest impact which was the welterweight division. That was to become the lineal champion which he accomplished.

Floyd was always going to fight DLH, the question was how much was DLH going to pay him? Floyd’s PPV numbers were not great even in the Gatti fight. That wasn’t a huge bargaining chip. What gave Floyd footing at the negotiating table was his status as the best and having the titles that backed up the consensus that would’ve made DLH the best p4p boxer in the world had he beat Floyd.

DLH needed Floyd and Floyd needed DLH. It just didn’t go Oscar’s way and it put Floyd on the map and in a whole other category in terms of his drawing power. DLH did the same thing for PAC when he couldn’t get Floyd to rematch him. The fight was close and Floyd retired which allowed PAC to take his place as the best p4p boxer in the world. DLH needed PAC and PAC needed DLH....Again, DLH came up short and it made Manny as PPV kingpin.

Broner is not on the level of DLH, Manny or Floyd in terms of his drawing power. He’s not a crossover boxer although he is popular within Boxing circles. His titles and belts are secondary to his over the top personality and out of the ring antics. People want to see Adrien because of his reputation. He is accomplished and a multi division world champion but the lineal titles he never won were not as important to marketing him as the new bad boy of Boxing. Less substance and more sizzle to help the networks sell their product.

Floyd on the other hand had the substance, credibility and the big over the top personality that landed him the DLH fight and sustained his momentum afterwards. The Margarito fight not happening when Floyd initially entered the welterweight division was upsetting for hardcore fans, but made perfect sense if you are Floyd Mayweather. Other welterweights at the time like Shane, Collazo, Spinks and Citron didn’t make the cut either....either because they were not the lineal champion, not holding a major world title or just not worth the risk for Mayweather’s focus to catch a DLH fight.

 

@JohnnyDrama99,

I wasn't suggesting that AB was ever a draw on a DLH/Mayweather scale. My point was that the industry got him to the very cusp of PPV without a single lineal title to his name (and with very few truly creditable wins, for that matter). That was possible because "lineal" means nothing to the average 21st century punter, and the interest of that punter is what makes for TV ratings and PPV numbers.

I can slightly paraphrase this true statement,

"but the lineal titles he never won were not as important to marketing him as the new bad boy of Boxing",

to read,

"but the lineal titles he won were not as important to marketing him as the new bad boy of Boxing",

and it applies just as truthfully to Floyd. Why else do we think he applied himself so forcefully to the heel persona? Floyd was already P4P rated and very highly regarded prior to Baldo. He wasn't lacking for that kind of prestige, and Baldo and his lineal title didn't heap industry prestige upon Floyd any more than it impressed the average punter.

I maintain that the lineage was an entirely secondary concern to the PPV figures Floyd was bringing to the table, and I also maintain that the 325,000 Floyd pulled against Baldo would've been swollen some if Tony had been in the opposite corner instead.


We can disagree.

 

I agree that the Boxing lineage has very little impact to the average weekend Boxing fan. That wasn’t the crux of my point as it relates to what it meant specifically for Floyd as leverage across the negotiating table from DLH. Floyd couldn’t use his ratings or PPV numbers as a point of leverage because they were simply not that impressive.

Floyd had to rely on the other elements that uniquely positioned him as the opponent Floyd needed to build up the event that would take his status to yet another level in terms of popularity and drawing power. Floyd’s trinkets such as titles, championships, lineage, undefeated record and villain persona were his levers to secure his career high payday. The fact that he won the lineal title at 147 was a weighted bargaining chip that increased his value in my opinion.

That doesn’t translate over to a boxer like AB. His shtick is what drives his stock. Not that I’m degrading his accomplishments as a prize fighter, he has a very impressive career. But if he was “About Billions” and had the same exact resume and accomplishments his stock wouldn’t be what it is today.

Floyd’s stock on the other hand relies heavily on the substance behind the numbers. How many world champions he’s faced and beaten, how many lineal titles he’s won, his undefeated record and beating Rocky’s record are all vital to his drawing power.....That all stemmed from how he was positioned and presented when he finally got the DLH fight. The “Money” persona is a huge part of the equation as it relates to the kind of attention he generates but it’s a combination of substance and his persona that makes Floyd uniquely different than anyone else.

How much more PPV buys do you think Floyd/Margarito would have pulled in vs the 325k generated for his bout with Baldomir? Do you think it would have eclipsed half a million? That would have been substantial if so? And possibly given Floyd more traction in his negotiations with DLH

 

HOw does this make sense to you?!?!?!

He fought a blown up JrWW, in his first fight at 147, to prepare for another blown up JrWW, to fight at 147.... good grief...

 

That was a regional PPV, not a full fledged HBO ior SHO ppv. You know the difference between them, right? No. Because you've been told this before. But you will never accept ANYTHING that you don't already disagree with.

 

Not really though. They would simply do what they always do, advertise floyd as a champ regardless of what belt he had. They do it all the time. Wish they wouldn't, as they are often a part of the problem with the numerous belts per division.

 

@Pimp C

STOP BEING RIDICULOUS, MAN. Floyd swerved Margo.

Floyd has, in very recent times, said the following:

• Ward shouldn't fight Kovalev
• Canelo shouldn't fight GGG
• Davis won't be fighting Lomachenko anytime soon

And in 2015, Floyd said:

• Everything in life is about timing
• He waited until the time was right (3 years after Pac was iced)
  
• That he made the move to fight Pac when he WANTED to

This dude has advised dudes to not fight certain dudes and he is protecting his dude (Duckvonta Gayvis) from that dude (NoMasChenko).

Seriously, bro?!