FMJ , Just a question

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by The Sarge, Nov 19, 2019.


  1. The Sarge

    The Sarge Member Full Member

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    This is not a thread made to stir up the usual arguments. This is a genuine question to REAL boxing fans and historians. Which ATG fighters (who are unanimously agreed to be ATG) did Floyd beat when they were in their recognised prime at the weight which is considered to be the weight they were in their prime at?
     
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  2. LeeD1982

    LeeD1982 Member Full Member

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    It's a loaded question because you can make that case against any fighter.

    Example, Frazier beat Ali in '71 - ergo Ali not in his prime.

    It becomes a self-referential truism that if they beat a fighter in his prime, he couldn't be in his prime, or he wouldn't have been beaten. And thus the argument continues in a loop forever.

    As far as Floyd is concerned, watch how Marquez - the incredibly skilled counter-puncher who nearly murdered Pacquio - can't even land a glove on him.
     
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  3. The Sarge

    The Sarge Member Full Member

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    Not if you are actually being objective you cant.

    By that argument then Ali never beat Frazier in his prime either

    Barrera and Morales are both ATGs and beat each other at their respective primes in the weight division they were both at their prime in

    There are loads of examples of fighters beating a prime ATG in their prime at their best weight.

    Marquez was dragged up 2 weight divisions above the weight he was regarded as in his prime in and a few years after what most experts would agree was his prime. That my point Floyd didnt fight any ATG at their prime in their best weight division. Even Hasim Rachman has 1 in beating Lewis during Lewis prime years
     
  4. Pakkuman

    Pakkuman Well-Known Member Full Member

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    JLC and Maidana, both leagues below JMM's skill level, beat Floyd.
     
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  5. LeeD1982

    LeeD1982 Member Full Member

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    Not saying Marquez was in his prime, I just mean the shut out of an elite opponent.
     
  6. ShovelHook

    ShovelHook Active Member Full Member

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    He never faced someone who had longer reach than him too. Floyd is known to be a cherry picking fraud though. Although I concede that in his pretty boy Floyd phase he beat a prime Corrales, Genaro Hernández and Castillo so there's that.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2019
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  7. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist Full Member

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    A lot of them would be considered prime ATGs had Floyd lost to them and beaten them in rematches.
     
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  8. Babality

    Babality KTFO!!!!!!! Full Member

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    Straight forward question. Nothing loaded about it. Your answer, however...
     
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  9. Jobo1878

    Jobo1878 Active Member Full Member

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    Not sure on reaches, but other than Williams, was there anyone else around at the time that had a longer reach?
     
  10. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist Full Member

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    Williams wouldn’t have even been a challenge. The only guy with a longer reach who would’ve caused problems was Andrade, but he was unknown and Mayweather dropped back to 147 after Canelo.

    The reach argument is ignorant and only applied to Mayweather, just like the “prime ATG” argument. Hearns had a ridiculous reach and it isn’t used to diminish him. Hagler and many other ATGs never beat a prime ATG at their best weightclass. Duran and Hearns arguably didn’t either (Leonard green at Montreal, 154 not Benitez’s best weight).
     
  11. The Sarge

    The Sarge Member Full Member

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    I never said which ATGS have beaten other ATGS tho. I simply asked how many did Floyd beat in their prime and their best weight? To be TBE he surely must have beaten 1?
    I agree Duran and Hagler also didnt, Nor did Leonard. But again I say, I didnt ask the question to define an all time great I asked about Floyd. Many people say Ray Robinson was TBE but no matter how much you argue Randy Turpin did beat him in his prime at his best weight (yes Turpin lost rematch and did nothing after) but he still beat more ATGs than Floyd in their prime at best weight
     
  12. Drew101

    Drew101 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Robinson's best weight was welterweight.
     
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  13. Daddy

    Daddy Active Member Full Member

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    Open boxrec - Scroll through his resume - consider which boxers were ATG (Quite a bit) - then consider if they were prime (hardly any) - then consider if prime, was it their prime weight - ZERO. There's your answer. Not even debatable.
     
  14. ShovelHook

    ShovelHook Active Member Full Member

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    Andrade, Lara, Williams, Margarito, Trout may have been equal, just to name a few.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2019
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  15. Brixton Bomber

    Brixton Bomber Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    None.

    It makes his 50+ fights, multiple divisions, and multiple decades as a fighter seem hollow.

    I have always stated that he never beat an ATG, in their prime, at their optimal weight.

    How you fight from '96-'16/'17 without doing so is absolutely crazy. There's a reason why so many people call him a duck...
     
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