FMJ , Just a question

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by The Sarge, Nov 19, 2019.


  1. C.J.

    C.J. Boxings Living Legend revered & respected by all Full Member

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    One lucky punch in a fight he was losing ?? That was the ONLY Pac fight he won
     
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  2. The Sarge

    The Sarge Member Full Member

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    Thankyou , and in a weight division that JMM was in his prime (albeit that fight they were probably both past it)
     
  3. OvidsExile

    OvidsExile I Live! I Die! I Live Again! Full Member

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    How many does Lomachenko have?
     
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  4. The Sarge

    The Sarge Member Full Member

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    Noone said anything about Loma. You arent answering the question
     
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  5. zortz

    zortz New Member Full Member

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    Which in-prime ATG in their best weight class could have he fought? It is an honest question, because even if he had beaten Pacquiao in 2010 (had they fought), one could argue that welter was not the best division for Pacman, although many would consider that an extremely great win legacy-wise.

    Sorry for the slight off topic.
     
  6. 22JM

    22JM Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Wrong, and even lucky punch or not a win is a win, and Marquez was robbed of all fights .
     
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  7. The Sarge

    The Sarge Member Full Member

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    Ok No he wasnt, but at least they were in each others prime weight division
    No its ok, not off topic. I think if he fought Pac in 2010 and won it would be a much closer to prime in prime divison, as it was he didnt . I think the very clear thing here is that as you said who could he have fought? Which means there was noone at ATG level for what 15 years in his weight divisions who were actually in their prime? Sooo, actually a relatively easy ride compared to what Pac, Oscar, Mosely, Cotto, Barrera, Morales, Marquez , faced no?
     
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  8. Odins beard

    Odins beard Leïla Bekhti fan club Full Member

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    Yet Mayweather went AWOL when the 147 division heated up.

    Not saying Williams beats him but he’d be a greater challenge than the fighters he faced at 147 prior to his early “retirement”.
     
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  9. Oddone

    Oddone Best Forehead Award Winner booted Full Member

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    I will address your question in its separate parts.
    1. It IS in fact a loaded question, which numerous others have already pointed out. None is the only answer.
    2. You can in fact be an all time great with just good names on your resume even if they weren’t prime, because the time window involved to get two prime for prime guys in with each other is insanely small.

    3. Floyd is not nor will he ever be TBE. He had to give himself that award after fight 48
    Personally I don’t have him even as an all time great. To be that you have to fight the best close to their primes. Mayweather is a superb fighter. He could teach a trigonometry class a thing or two about angles. He is so good defensively he can leave opponents dazed without even throwing a punch. His unbeaten record includes 10 world titles in five weight categories. And he will almost certainly go down as a fine boxer of this era.
    But when you talk about being the greatest ever, as Mayweather does, the goalposts shift. Breaking Rocky Marciano’s 49-0 record was not be enough; no one says the Brockton Blockbuster is the greatest heavyweight of all time, despite the fact he retired unbeaten.

    No, the very greatest fighters stretch themselves, by seeking out the most dangerous opponents in their prime. Did he do that? No. He waited six years so that he could face a much less supersonic version of the Pacquiao who tore through Ricky Hatton, Miguel Cotto and Antonio Margarito. He waited until 2007 for de la Hoya who had lost two of his previous four contests (and one of the wins, against Felix Sturm, was widely disputed)
    Floyd is the best at making money, but as far as the best ever? Gtfo.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2019
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  10. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist Full Member

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    Bull****. If anyone went AWOL, it was Ray Leonard.
     
  11. From.Russia

    From.Russia Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Didnt like him, but acknowledged his skill. Sad, that he didnt face fighter like Hearns in his career, hehe
     
  12. Drew101

    Drew101 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    By weight class, here's a list of the notable fighters around at the time that Mayweather fought in each division.

    Jr. Light:

    G. Hernandez
    Diego Corrales
    Acelino Freitas
    Joel Casamayor.

    Fought 2, both of whom were considered number one at the time. Hernandez could be considered worthy of a top ten spot at 130lbs, but the flip side was that he might have been considered past best.

    Lightweight:

    Jose Luis Castillo
    Leonard Dorin
    Paul Spadafora

    JLC was considered the clear number one, and FMJ fought him twice.

    Jr. Welterweight:

    Kostya Tszyu
    Ricky Hatton
    Miguel Cotto

    Fought Cotto and Hatton in higher weight divisions. Fought Gatti instead of KT, who subsequently signed to fight Hatton, lost and retired. Window of opportunity was pretty narrow, but that's one HOF'er/near-ATG that he missed. Given KT's career trajectory, you have to wonder if he would have been considered prime had FMJ fought and defeated him in place of Hatton, though.

    Welterweight, at various points. This is a list of WW titleholders and champions fighting around the time Mayweather was active.

    Zab Judah
    Carlos Baldomir
    Ricky Hatton
    Marcos Maidana
    Paul Williams
    Shane Mosley
    Manny Pacquiao
    Joshua Clottey
    Andre Berto
    Kell Brook
    Shawn Porter
    Paulie Malignaggi
    Juan Manuel Marquez
    Timothy Bradley
    Antonio Margarito
    Keith Thurman
    Robert Guerrero
    Victor Ortiz
    Devon Alexander
    Adrien Broner

    Junior Middleweight:

    Oscar De La Hoya
    Miguel Cotto
    Canelo Alvarez

    There were definitely some ATG's there. There weren't many campaigning at their very best weight in their absolute prime. Pac in 2010 would have been the closest, but as you say, a Mayweather victory over Pac at that point might have been dismissed by some on the basis of Pac coming up in weight and arguably being at his best at Feather through Lightweight.

    Tough to catch an ATG at or near their absolute best, at their optimum weight.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2019
  13. longislandtroop

    longislandtroop Member Full Member

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    I would really like people to answer your initial question?
     
  14. zortz

    zortz New Member Full Member

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    I think that easy ride is not the exact expression, but I agree that a case can be made that those fighters faced in-prime opponents near their best weight class (win or lose). However, I'm pretty ignorant of what Floyd did below 140, so I wouldn't be sure about him.

    Thanks! That's a pretty comprehensive answer.
     
  15. Pimp C

    Pimp C Trapper of The Year Full Member

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    Rustico Torrecampo was leagues below both JLC and Maidana skill level and he knocked Pac the **** out.:deal:
    BTW PBF never lost to JLC or Maidana and is 2-0 against both.
     
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