Footage on Old Timers

For anyone who hasn't seen, then check out the Ike Williams-Beau Jack fight i posted above at about 5:45 onwards. One of the most famous and violent (plus brave from the other viewpoint) stoppages of all time right there.

 

You've hit the nail on the head, it's as simple as that.

 

Humans are getting taller, faster, stronger and healthier....

...but you're telling me fighters now have less punch resistance and are slower?

Bull****.

 

That Charley Burley vid McGrain posted is one of the best to ever be created.

This man, it might be argued did not have a great career. I won't dispute that right now, but what isn't debatable is the beauty of the operator, behold:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pUcH2Hgcj4&feature=related[/ame]

and here's the nut-hugging angle:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81GE6DGISaw&feature=related[/ame]

 

No he never said that. He's saying it's much easier for a fighter with them undesirable attributes you've just described, to break a top ten list. Fighters can be around today that are great or ****, just like yesteryear. But McGrain is simply pointing out that in years gone by, mastering the trade was something that HAD to happen to reach the pinnacle. ****, a lot of guys who never reached the so-called pinnacle, or only have done in our minds after their passing, they mastered the trade.

Be objective and don't put words in people's mouths man.

 

Jones only looked good because he was fighting sub par fighters. Place him in a deep middleweight division and he looks ordinary at best and probably gets stopped more often than not. Jones was protected by HBO and caught using PEDs (which NOONE ever seems to mention) take the heavy handed protection of the Time Warner company and take away his PEDs and you have a chinny ordinary fighter who never learned to box having to face top ten competition at least once a month. You think Jones is gonna thrive in that environment? HA!

 

So shall i give the eulogy for ths thread or does someone else fancy it?

 

You've only got to look at Pavliks 2 losing fights. A couple of years ago he was the new Monzon and now he's been found out by an old Bernard Hopkins who knows his craft and and another old and small fighter in Sergio Martinez who's learnt his trade without gimme fights and got to the top the hard way as well.

 

People who say this have no understanding of what they are talking about. Humans are not getting taller or healthier. That is to say their potential height and health hasnt noticabely exceeded that which it has been in recorded history. Only the recorded statistics of height of height and longevity (which I assume is what you mean by health) have increased for a number of reasons and none of them have to do with some evolutionary miracle which is what you seem to assume. Two things contribute to humans being taller and living longer than they did, say 100 odd years ago: 1. Healthier diet, meaning we dont have a massive peasant population living off of inadiquate subsistance farming or hunter/gathering. 2. And our ability to eradicate or control disease. Its as simple as that. Humans havent evolved in 100 years to suddenly be three inches taller and live 20 years longer. As for strength and speed those are relative to the amount of performance enhancing drugs ingested today. Do you think without PEDs the Klitchkos, Holyfield, Lewis, and others would be as athletic, big, and strong as they are now? Get real! Have you seen what Lewis looked like in his twenties when his growing should have been levelling off? He was a tall, lanky, gangly, uncoordinated guy who tripped over his own feet. Then suddenly he gained 30 pounds of solid muscle and became one of the biggest, strongest, and more dominant fighters of his era. One of the Klitchkos has already been busted for Roids, and so has Evander, not to mention his incredible weight solid muscle weight gain, training sessions with lee haney, mysterious heart ailments, and rapid balding... Think that was evolution taking a toll on Evander? How about Jones, who also got busted for PEDs? He weighed as low as 155 shredded in his 20s and weighed 210 pounds shredded for Ruiz. Think he did that by eating Tuna and Egg whites :nono If you take away the drugs and the over protective match making designed to make stars and not fighters then dump these guys into the 20s or the 50s theyd get eaten alive. Period. Oh dont get me wrong, a handful of them would be competetive and some might even be champions but most of them you would never hear of.

 

With study, you'll find that boxing is a lot more comparable to other past times that require mental creativity, originality, fortitude and the inherent character of the human being; poetry, music, movies, all forms of art, etc. than it is comparable to other sporting events that rely almost solely on a human being's athletic capabilties (swimming, high/long jump, all forms of track and field, etc.). It's such a drastically different sport than any other that it's useless and in fact pretty simple-minded to compare it to any other brand of athletics. You'll find with objectivity and understanding that the decline in a mentality/character driven sport like boxing is a lot more closely related to the decline of many of the aforementioned arts, rather than any incline brought about by the increase in the overall athletic ability of humans over the years.

 

In other words, there is more to it than just athletic ability?

 

That was the gist, yes.

 

Your posts have been spot on. It's what i got at earlier with my comment about the admiration of Jones' handspeed. Good posts.

 

:good