For Bojac re Ed Martin-Jeffries

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mattdonnellon, Oct 19, 2010.


  1. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Logansport Pharos, Jan 6 1902

    "Champion Jeffries has drawn the color
    line so far as the heavyweight title is
    concerned.
    When asked if he would fight "Denver
    Ed" Martin, Madden's negro champion,
    if he beat Ruhlin, Delaney chimed
    in by saying: "No, we won't fight a
    negro for the championship. There
    never has been a battle for that title
    in the heavyweight class in this country,
    and Jeffries is not going to open
    the ball. Suppose he were to fight
    Martin and be defeated, which docs
    not seem possible, America would have
    to bow to a negro champion. But
    what is the use of talking about it?
    It will never happen, and you can put
    that in your hat for future reference."
    "But," said a listener, 'Jeffries
    fought Armstrong, Peter Jackson and,
    only recently. Hank Griffin."
    "They were not championship battles,
    were they'."' retorted Billy.
    As Jeffries has little to fear from
    Martin or any other black in the ring,
    he places himself in a weak position
    when he excludes negroes. If a black
    man is good enough to fight with, he
    is good enough to have the championship,
    provided he can win it.
    George Dixon held championships
    for many years, and there was no special
    humiliation observable.
    From a social standpoint there may
    be objections to color, but in the game
    of knockout fighting ability alone
    should be considered."
     
  2. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    or "Boston Daily Globe" Jan. 27,1902.

    "As regard to 'Denver' Ed Martin's
    challenge I will take no notice of it,
    as it Is simply done to advertise him,
    for his coming bout with Frank Chllds.
    It is no certainty that he will defeat
    Chllds, who is not regarded as a formidable
    pugilist. Martin has never defeated
    any one. of any prominence.
    "'Then again i never will fight a colored
    man for the championship, except
    under one condition. That is in case I
    should retire and some colored boxer
    won the title. I would feel it my duty
    to re-enter the ring and try and win it
    back. "As things look now it seems as if I
    may have to retire if I cannot get any
    onn to meet me. However, I shall always
    be ready to defend the championship at
    all times against any legitimate
    comers, but it will always be on the
    terms of winner takes all."
     
  3. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Well well.
     
  4. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Hoist by his own petard.
     
  5. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Seems so. I have no agenda in this at all except to try and get the facts as straight as I can and also try and put things in the context of THAT time. I don't think, personally that Martin lasts three rounds with Jeff, his strenghts and weaknesses were all wrong for such a fight IMO. I have to question Johnson on the Choynsky defeat and also the Hart performance, decent opponents and Jacks greenness is at least offset by Joe's overthehillness, a Tubbs v Bowe senario if you like in terms of career positions. Ruhlin, Sharkey, Fitz (first time) and Corbett, first time also, were without much doubt good calibre defences. The rest were more dubious, especially Monroe, but every champ is entitled to a few easy ones and you must remember that he was easily the most active HW champ up to that time. But he certainly avoided Martin, Johnson and perhaps McVey, only his reasons are problematic.
     
  6. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    This is a fair and even handed opinion, imo.
     
  7. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    I could add more sources, but the point is well proven.

    Jeffries refused to fight black opponents (many of who he could have decisively beaten) out of some misguided sense of principle.

    It was sad for them and sad for him.

    Sad for them because their dreams of fighting for the world title were ruined.

    Sad for him because he built up an unparalelled legacy, that disintegrated to ashes after his comeback fight against Jack Johnson.
     
  8. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Thanks for great research, Matt!:good
     
  9. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    I think Jim Corbett proved himself very worthy during the fight, but as far as I can ascertain his form going in was abysmal.
    He'd been KO'd by Fitz and beaten up by Sharkey, hadn't won a fight for years, and had enjoyed the greater part of the decade in theatre tours rather than ring campaigns. He had very little going for him apart from his fame and status as ex-champion.

    He made that all academic when he gave Jeffries one of his toughest battles. I can't help thinking Corbett in his prime would have handled Jeffries quite easily, and was in fact the greater fighter.
     
  10. Pachilles

    Pachilles Boxing Addict Full Member

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    feast on that crow, bra
     
  11. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    A very reasonable view. I think peak v peak, finish fight Jeffries, limited rounds(say 10-25) Corbett.