For Chenko to equal Duran.

The Akbar One · Dec 26, 2017

Kevin Willis said: ↑

Hey look! Pumpkin face who spends Christmas crying about Lomachenko on message boards is still carrying on his crusade.
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What type of gay mother ****er stalks another man on a web forum half the year and through the holiday season, because Ward pushed Kovalev's **** in. You've been walking around with a sore arse for months. I'm not even a big Ward guy, but that was the high level beat down of the year. Even more satisfying was the way that it ruined the lives of the putrid supporters of the racist Kovalev, like your dumb arse, and Turd435.

The Akbar One · Dec 26, 2017

navigator said: ↑

Almost all of Ray Leonard's legacy was built in a period not much longer than the four years for which Lomachenko has been a professional boxer. Ray was pretty much done (on account of his eye issues) before he even reached his physical prime, which makes his level of accomplishment somewhat scary. Loma had the advantage of entering the sport verging on his physical prime and with his engine already built from years of professional caliber training, even if he is disadvantaged in terms of richness/depth of potential competition and by possessing nowhere near the level of all-round aptitude Leonard possessed.

The age at which a fighter turns over does generally have a bearing on how much significant work he might expect to get done, though. But that's on Loma and any other guy who decides to turn pro at 25. Or it's on their circumstances. Whatever the case, whether a late start be down to choice or lack of it, sympathy and woulda/coulda/shoulda don't factor into estimations of All-Time Greatness.

If only all those amateur years factored, Loma would have been showing up somewhere in scholarly P4P ATG rankings before he threw a single punch as a professional, along with that nothingburger Cuban myth Teofilo Stevenson. What happens in the vest is only a warm-up for what happens in the professional hurt business, amateur fetishization and deification be damned - it'll give you some degree of grounding for the pro game (with mileage varying, of course), but accomplishments in the amateur sport are not transferable to a professional fighting legacy. Which means, if you want to be ranked among the very best of the best that history has to offer, you're better served turning over around 18-21. Failing that, you're going to have to pack a heck of a lot of stellar competition into what will probably be no more than a ten-year window, or else be able to fight and win at top level well into your 40's.

There are some Lomachenko fans who would give you the impression that he's knocking on the door of this kind of greatness already. That's what happens when an 'evolutionary' fighter comes along - wins over Gary Russell Jr. and a shopworn Roman Martinez are suddenly tantamount to wins over Ray Leonard and Ken Buchanan.
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The Roman Martinez win isn't all that. Martinez isn't that good, and he was having weight troubles. The Russell Jr. win is a good win though.

tinman · Dec 26, 2017

The Akbar One said: ↑

The Roman Martinez win isn't all that. Martinez isn't that good, and he was having weight troubles. The Russell Jr. win is a good win though.
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The Rigo win isn't that great either because Rigo was small, old and not a very good fighter.

slender4 · Dec 26, 2017

The Kentucky Cobra said: ↑

All these analogies are dumb but these are the worst, absolutely laughable comparisions. You talk about insulting fighters based off bad comparisions...then write this.
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OK, then do better.

slender4 · Dec 26, 2017

Reg said: ↑

If you can't properly take into account same day way ins vs previous day weigh in and the age a fighter started their pro career then how can you expect to have a meaningful discussion? Pretty sure GGG is larger than Hagler and Lara, who isn't even a big jrMW is larger than Benitez.
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GGG was probably 10 lbs. heavier than Hagler in the ring, but in terms of being dominant middleweight champs its a fair comparison. Hagler was about Julian Williams size, but he would have beaten a jr.-lighteweight easily also.

slender4 · Dec 26, 2017

deyell said: ↑

Duran has naturally wider shoulders which means a lot when it comes to adding "effective" weight.
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He didn't add effective weight, he added weight and MADE IT effective. This was a 5-6 lightweight who lived in Panama and wanted to put weight on to fight the most popular fighter in the world. Did he lift? Did he use steroids? A dietitian? No, he ate a lot, and drank all night. That was Duran. He was HAPPY to go up in weight to fight bigger guys, it meant he could party more.

That was Duran in a nutshell.

The Kentucky Cobra · Dec 26, 2017

slender4 said: ↑

OK, then do better.
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I dont have to, I think the idea is stupid, and not how greatness works. My point is its obvious you know nothing about these fighters to begin with.

How are Palomino and Broner.....anything alike?

slender4 · Dec 26, 2017

navigator said: ↑

Almost all of Ray Leonard's legacy was built in a period not much longer than the four years for which Lomachenko has been a professional boxer. Ray was pretty much done (on account of his eye issues) before he even reached his physical prime, which makes his level of accomplishment somewhat scary. Loma had the advantage of entering the sport verging on his physical prime and with his engine already built from years of professional caliber training, even if he is disadvantaged in terms of richness/depth of potential competition and by possessing nowhere near the level of all-round aptitude Leonard possessed.

.
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Yup, Leonard was already past his prime at 28, burned out faster than any great fighter I can remember.

He was a non-stop partier, from what I have read, also. Orgies, coke and and open bar every night at both his east coast house and California house.

I like the way the E.E. has brought seriousness back to training. Aside from Kovalev these guys seem to have boxing and their families, that's about it, they never miss weight and are always in shape to go 12. I don't know how they stay so focused.

A Mexican guy I know told me that a chick he worked with went to Vegas when JCC was going to fight Oscar with the expressed purpose of F-ing JCC. He said one of his bouncers gave her the room number and when she went up there were 7 other beautiful miniskirted Mexican girls, just sitting in a row in the hallway outside of Chavez room waiting for their turn with Chavez. This was THE NIGHT BEFORE THE FIGHT!

DLH probably had 10.

BlizzyBlizz · Dec 26, 2017

slender4 said: ↑

Duran started his career at 126 and was at his best as a lightweight.

He moved up, at 5-7 to fight at welterweight. His first fight was Monroe Brooks. who was 40-4 and had had a title shot at 140. Brooks was 5-10. I would compare his skill to Victor Postol. Knocked Brooks out in 8.

Then he fought Carlos Palamino who was hugely popular boxer back in the early 80's. Did a lot of movies and stuff. I would compare him to a young Broner. Palomino was 31-2-3, and had just gone 15 SD loss to Wilfredo Benitez.

Then he fought Sugar Ray Leonard, the best welter in the world, and one of the best at all time, at 147. Ray was 5-10. Duran won a decision.

The there was the ill-fated rematch, which Duran agreed to right away. And took place 5 months later. I would equate Leonard with Spence, just because Crawford is too small, but SRL would have destroyed either one of them.

The he fought Wilfedo Benitez at 43-1-1. Youngest world titlist ever, hall-of famer at JMWT! Keep in mind, Duran was 5-7. Benitez was 5-11. I would equate Benitez to Lara.

Then he knocked out Pipino Cuevas, another verry popular Mexican fighter who I would compare to Brandon Rios.

Then he fought Davey Moore, arguably the best young fighter in the world at the time 12-0, Olympian 5-11 160. And WRECKED HIM. Ended his career. I would say Moore was a bit like Charlo.

Then he fought the one and only Marvin Hagler. One of the five greatest middleweights ever in his prime. Very Close decision loss. I would say that Hagler is like GGG.

The he fought the one and only Thomas Hearns. 38-1, his only loss to Leonard in one of the greatest fights ever. Duran was totally out of his league and got coldcocked in 2. I would say Hearns most closely compares to Jarret Hurd, although my fingers just got numb writing this.

OK, so if Chenko fights:

Postol
Broner
Spence x2
Rios
Charlo
Golovkin
Hurt

over the next 5 years and goes 4-4 I will give him all the props of Duran. Now, let me tell you, NONE of those guys above really matches up with guys Duran fought, except maybe Charlo to Davey Moore, but I think it's somehting to shoot for.
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He can't ever catch Duran. There are far less accomplished great fighters than Duran that he won't reach either.

eltirado · Dec 27, 2017

Roberto Duran can't be Vasyl Lomachenko
Vasyl Lomachenko can't be Roberto Duran

Both are oozing of greatness, that is the main thing they have in common. No point of judging Duran boxing, because he was an exceptional human...

Roberto Duran was the prophet of Machismo, its very difficult to be more Macho than Roberto Duran. Hugging terminally-ill Esteban De Jesus (during the peak of the AIDS scare), shows the the type of man we are talking about, doing that in the 1980s is equivalent to hugging an Ebola dying patient in our times

Vasyl is the type of boxer you want to custom build in a video game, giving up some power-punching & range in return for full-spectrum superior boxing skills. He is still active, so its still early to close up his book...

slender4 · Dec 26, 2017

Oh, and by the way I think Chenko is the best 130er and 135 er in the world right now. I'd love to see him fight Brechelt, Easter, Linares and Garcia. If I had to bet I think he'd win all four, but I wouldn't feel confident in betting on any except maybe Linares.

Kevin Willis · Dec 26, 2017

The Akbar One said: ↑

What type of gay mother ****er stalks another man on a web forum half the year and through the holiday season, because Ward pushed Kovalev's **** in. You've been walking around with a sore arse for months. I'm not even a big Ward guy, but that was the high level beat down of the year. Even more satisfying was the way that it ruined the lives of the putrid supporters of the racist Kovalev, like your dumb arse, and Turd435.
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Who said anything about Ward you dumb ****? Talk about being gay; you cannot keep his name out of you mouth. Everything is Ward, Ward, Ward and of course Loma's skin. Why don't you **** off th the MMA forum and explain how Angle Hill beats prime Fedor.

What a pathetic bunch of man babies babies you and your pathetic cult are, going off on some crusade about Loma not being greater than Duran. Yeah no **** Captain obvious, you really showed us.

Let me guess: It's not you, altruism commands that you address what Loma's promoter said, right? Some little boxer from a country you could not find on a map has literally deracinated your World view.

Pathetic really!

Jackomano · Dec 26, 2017

BlizzyBlizz said: ↑

He can't ever catch Duran. There are far less accomplished great fighters than Duran that he won't reach either.
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This. Duran went 71-1 and managed to beat SRL and became a champ at 147. Duran could've easily retired after beating SRL and would've still been a legend, but even went on to become a middleweight champ.

Loma would need to clean out 130 & 135 entirely and move up to 147 and beat Spence or Thurman to even begin being compared to Duran.

Gil Gonzalez · Dec 26, 2017

The OP is a Lomachenko hater who's making this troll thread to quote later on to show how bad Loma fans are. Of course, Pimp Stupido, Gay Sayer and IsaLoser will all join in and agree.

kirk · Dec 26, 2017

Cafe said: ↑

I don't agree with the whole "you have to move up this many divisions", fact is not everyone has equal physical ability or fighting style to accomplish these feats. Look at Gomez, was a total beast at 122, looked nigh unstoppable, moved up just one weight class got destroyed and just generally didn't look anywhere near as good.

I do not have a problem with fighters dominating over 2-3 weight classes.
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Bingo. Spot on.

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