For how long do you consider Wlad to have been the true HW champ?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by lufcrazy, Oct 11, 2015.


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  1. cuchulain

    cuchulain Loyal Member Full Member

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    :shock:


    It died when Joe Louis retired in 1949. :oops:
     
    cuchulain, Oct 14, 2015
    cuchulain, Oct 14, 2015
    #61
  2. cuchulain

    cuchulain Loyal Member Full Member

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    Or was it when Gene Tunney retired in '28 ?????? :lol:
     
    cuchulain, Oct 14, 2015
    cuchulain, Oct 14, 2015
    #62
  3. madballster

    madballster Loyal Member Full Member

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    Holyfield became undisputed HW champ by TKOing 250 lbs Buster Douglas.
     
    madballster, Oct 14, 2015
    madballster, Oct 14, 2015
    #63
  4. Baba Duke

    Baba Duke Guest


    I was there when he died too

    If you open you door and look

    You might see me too
     
    Baba Duke, Oct 14, 2015
    Baba Duke, Oct 14, 2015
    #64
  5. Rumsfeld

    Rumsfeld Moderator Staff Member

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    Quickly, I don't think any of those rankings are particularly good if we fast forward to April in the lead-up to Wlad-Byrd II.

    Rahman had done nothing of note since losing to Ruiz.

    Toney had a win over Dominick Guinn sandwiched between a draw with Rahman and the no contest with Ruiz after he tested positive for a banned substance.

    Brewster lost to Liakhovich a few weeks prior to Wlad-Byrd II.

    Ruiz? I guess you could make a case that he deserved to be ranked higher than Wlad at that time.

    Barrett was already dominated by Klitschko years earlier and lost to Rahman prior to Wlad-Byrd II.

    Brock was actually pretty decent, and I think he tends to get underrated, but aside from a win over McCline and a handful other decent wins, he didn't have much going resume-wise.

    At the end of the day, I think it's a tough sell to rank any of those guys ahead of Wlad in the immediate lead-up to his rematch with Byrd. You could maybe make a case for 1 or 2 of those guys, but I don't think it would be a particularly good case.

    And as I recall things, the general feel on the forums was that Byrd and Wlad were the rightful #1 and #2 guys at that time, even if it was a far cry from a consensus.
     
    Rumsfeld, Oct 14, 2015
    Rumsfeld, Oct 14, 2015
    #65
  6. Farmboxer

    Farmboxer VIP Member Full Member

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    Vlad has been the true heavyweight champ since Vitali retired...................
     
    Farmboxer, Oct 14, 2015
    Farmboxer, Oct 14, 2015
    #66
  7. UnleashtheFURY

    UnleashtheFURY D'oh! Full Member

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    Good post. :good
     
    UnleashtheFURY, Oct 14, 2015
    UnleashtheFURY, Oct 14, 2015
    #67
  8. Nonito Smoak

    Nonito Smoak Ioka>Lomo, sorry my dudes Full Member

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    You're only furthering the case that #1 Byrd vs. #5-10 Wladimir was clearly not worthy of filling the vacant title.

    Only if you ranked Wladimir higher than The Ring did AND adopted their new Ring Title policy would it apply.

    And just like that, I hope you know why considering Wladimir vs. Byrd II for the lineal HW title in 2006 is bordering on ridiculous. Knowing what Wladimir would go on to do has zero bearing here.
     
    Nonito Smoak, Oct 15, 2015
    Nonito Smoak, Oct 15, 2015
    #68
  9. Nonito Smoak

    Nonito Smoak Ioka>Lomo, sorry my dudes Full Member

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    Apparently this...
     
    Nonito Smoak, Oct 15, 2015
    Nonito Smoak, Oct 15, 2015
    #69
  10. Pugilist_Spec

    Pugilist_Spec Hands Of Stone Full Member

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    But Douglas actually HELD all the titles...and people were critical of Holyfield a lot, until he beat Bowe...
     
    Pugilist_Spec, Oct 15, 2015
    Pugilist_Spec, Oct 15, 2015
    #70
  11. cuchulain

    cuchulain Loyal Member Full Member

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    No, it isn't.

    If Byrd is ranked #1 and Wlad is subjectively ranked #7 (and the ranking IS subjective) an hour before the fight (which I believe was the case), then an hour AFTER the fight when Wlad has destroyed Byrd, a case can be made that the before-the-fight ranking was clearly off, and that Wlad is now the number 1, having just beaten the previous number 1, who presumably has dropped to number 2.

    So, within the past hour then, the number 1 and 2 have met and we have a new champion.

    Faaaaaar from ridiculous !


    I have not said one way or another when Wlad became champion.

    All I said was that A CASE CAN BE MADE for a number of different points, including:

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    The Ibragimov fight
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    Vitali's Charr fight
    Vitali'sofficial retirement.

    The ones in red have IMO, a stronger case, but the point is, there is no right answer here. It depends on what you consider.
     
    cuchulain, Oct 15, 2015
    cuchulain, Oct 15, 2015
    #71
  12. Jackomano

    Jackomano Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    After Vitali retired I considered him the best.
     
    Jackomano, Oct 15, 2015
    Jackomano, Oct 15, 2015
    #72
  13. ludwig

    ludwig Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Top guy in the division since beating Byrd and Ibragimov. Champ since beating Chagaev. Undisputed champ after Vitali retired. So he's been champ for a very long time...at least 6 years.
     
    ludwig, Oct 15, 2015
    ludwig, Oct 15, 2015
    #73
  14. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    I really am not sure.

    I think historically it will be remembered as from the Povetkin fight. Before then Wlad was a number 1 but how clear a number 1 cab you be when most thought the number 2 was better than him?

    I literally change my mind every day. It's very subjective.

    If we go purely off a 1 v 2 situation it didn't occur until Vitali retired.

    I think it could be argued just as strongly that Vitali was technically lineal champ upon his return since no new champ had been established.
     
    lufcrazy, Oct 15, 2015
    lufcrazy, Oct 15, 2015
    #74
  15. Cisco Route

    Cisco Route He Who Says Nay banned

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    Wlad won the Lineal title with his win over Povetkin. That is the only time where the #1 and #2 HWs met to decide a new lineage since Lewis retired. All other lineal claims before the Povetkin fight are unadulterated BS.
     
    Cisco Route, Oct 15, 2015
    Cisco Route, Oct 15, 2015
    #75
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