For HW buffs!

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mattdonnellon, Dec 31, 2012.


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  1. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    These fighters move through the ages but most of them are linked and roughly of the same quality;
    Rate them at HW

    Pastor
    Bivins
    Moore
    Patterson
    Quarry
    Lyle
    Young
    Dokes
    Ruddock
    Chambers

    My take(I found it tough!)

    1-Patterson
    2-Young
    3-Moore
    4-Dokes
    5-Quarry
    6-Bivins
    7-Lyle
    8-Ruddock
    9-Chambers
    10-Pastor
     
    mattdonnellon, Dec 31, 2012
    mattdonnellon, Dec 31, 2012
    #1
  2. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Bivins
    Pastor
    Patterson
    Moore
    Young
    Dokes
    Quarry
    Ruddock
    Chambers
    Lyle
     
    Unforgiven, Dec 31, 2012
    Unforgiven, Dec 31, 2012
    #2
  3. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Hi Buff1
    interesting why you rate Pastor so high?
     
    mattdonnellon, Dec 31, 2012
    mattdonnellon, Dec 31, 2012
    #3
  4. Nightcrawler

    Nightcrawler Boxing Addict Full Member

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    this one is for salsanchezfan :)
     
    Nightcrawler, Dec 31, 2012
    Nightcrawler, Dec 31, 2012
    #4
  5. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    He is quite the HW aficionado, and expert here at ESB! C'mon Sal bring it:ko
     
    PhillyPhan69, Dec 31, 2012
    PhillyPhan69, Dec 31, 2012
    #5
  6. Nightcrawler

    Nightcrawler Boxing Addict Full Member

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    like it, might switch dokes and quarry. maybe lyle with chambers.

    i'm alos curious about pastor being so high but like bivins at the top and moore has a very underrated heavyweight resume

    if young won some of those close, big fights he'd be number 1 with a bullet. but he didn't
     
    Nightcrawler, Dec 31, 2012
    Nightcrawler, Dec 31, 2012
    #6
  7. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I happen to think Patterson very underrated and like him to beat any version of Moore, Quarry or Lyle which to me ties up maybe Bivins and Pastor. It took special power to take Floyd out and his speed could only be counteracted by a BIG GOOD boxer.
     
    mattdonnellon, Dec 31, 2012
    mattdonnellon, Dec 31, 2012
    #7
  8. Ole Mongoose

    Ole Mongoose Member Full Member

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    Floyd is definitely underrated. He has a great résumé but too often is remembered for the Liston blow out losses. He had some great work after those.
     
    Ole Mongoose, Dec 31, 2012
    Ole Mongoose, Dec 31, 2012
    #8
  9. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Pastor should be significantly higher.

    Dokes has been given a high rating that demands justification.

    Once we get out of the top 5, we have to ask hard questions about ranked contenders beaten.
     
    janitor, Dec 31, 2012
    janitor, Dec 31, 2012
    #9
  10. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I suppose I'm ranking Dokes a lot on ability and potential, a lot of both unfulfilled so I take your point. He did give Holy a hell of a fight and I thought he beat Weaver the second time. But on resume I guess he should be lower-I suppose I went mainly H2H myself.
    Pastor I've actually always liked and I've just boxreced him to refresh myself. I rate him a tad lower than Bivins and I rate Moore just a bit better than Jimmy, I add in the Conn loss and that leave Bob slipping down a very close and competitive field as I see it.
     
    mattdonnellon, Dec 31, 2012
    mattdonnellon, Dec 31, 2012
    #10
  11. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    I put Pastor just below Bivins because based on their head-to-head record they seemed about even, going 1-1.
    Also, Pastor did pretty well against Joe Louis, going the full 10 rounds distance and 11 rounds in the rematch. The other blemishes on his record : was beaten by peak versions Billy Conn and Jimmy Bivins, dropped decision to Nathan Mann and spoiler Gus Dorazio, drew with Nova, Rosenbloom and Mauriello. These were some of the best men around. The decision losses were mostly very close, he was only stopped twice (by Louis and by Conn, who admitted he low-blowed Pastor to score that KO).
    He beat : Jimmy Bivins, Lem Franklin, Turkey Thompson, Roscoe Toles, (four of the best black contenders of the day, who never got title shots). Also beat : Al Ettore, Gus Lesnevich, Al McCoy, Lee Ramage.

    I'd rate Pastor and Bivins about equals. I think prime-for-prime Jimmy Bivins takes Archie Moore, and I believe his HW run better than any Moore put together, hence the rating.
     
    Unforgiven, Jan 1, 2013
    Unforgiven, Jan 1, 2013
    #11
  12. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Good, interesting post. I'd have Patterson first personally but I like what you wrote.
     
    McGrain, Jan 1, 2013
    McGrain, Jan 1, 2013
    #12
  13. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    It's razor close between the top four or five on my list. I mean, nothing much separates 1 and 4 at all. I'm inclined to have Patterson below Moore, in 4th place. But he did beat Moore convincingly.
    It seems harsh not to have the two-heavyweight champion Patterson above them all, but I feel the circumstances of him being champ was that he got a bit lucky with Marciano's retirement. (and his reign sucked ass.)
     
    Unforgiven, Jan 1, 2013
    Unforgiven, Jan 1, 2013
    #13
  14. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Good case made here for Bivins and Pastor but can anyone do the same for Lyle, Ruddock or Chambers?
     
    mattdonnellon, Jan 1, 2013
    mattdonnellon, Jan 1, 2013
    #14
  15. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    If I am transplanting them as a top 10 in a bizzare era and determining who would fare the best????

    01 Ruddock
    02 Patterson
    03 Quarry
    04 Young
    05 Chambers
    06 Lyle
    07 Moore
    08 Pastor
    09 Bivins
    10 Dokes
     
    PhillyPhan69, Jan 1, 2013
    PhillyPhan69, Jan 1, 2013
    #15
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