For my 5,000th post : My Pound-for-Pound Top 50 Fighters of All-Time..

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by DINAMITA, Nov 24, 2008.


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  1. redrooster

    redrooster Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Sure there is. You just won't admit it. And if there WAS a Hearns there would be no Hopkins just like when there was a Jones, Hopkins had to take a back seat to him. Sad but true
     
    redrooster, Nov 28, 2008
    redrooster, Nov 28, 2008
    #241
  2. ron u.k.

    ron u.k. Boxing Addict banned

    4,920
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    who's running away? i'll concede the term "washed up" was probably a stretch too far, but certainly the terms "over the hill" and "well passed his prime" are appropriate for leonard that night.however your saying he was on an 11 year winning streak,but fail to say he'd only fought 5 times in the previous 9 years.the leonard that beat hagler in '87 was over the hill,to be fair as was marvin,but that version would have been enough to beat norris,this was another 4 years down the line.i think you know your stuff and are very well informed,but leonard is your weakness as most of us know.;) your sensible debate goes out of the window.it's the same with betty swollocks when he discusses hatton.
     
    ron u.k., Nov 28, 2008
    ron u.k., Nov 28, 2008
    #242
  3. redrooster

    redrooster Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Let's not make excuses for him. He's already had it easy enough in his career. Yes I would expect him to be over the hill but the truth was he wasn't and far from it by what I saw in the Hagler fight. He got thru the 12 rounds. He didnt drop dead by the 3 round people were expecting. He was able to throw combinations without tripping over his feet.

    You say Leonard had 5 times in the last nine years. But if you want to be up to date, he had 4 fights in the last 4 years with a total of 45 rounds and without the ring rust going into the Hagler fight and at 154, a more comfortable weight. Not to mention a huge advantage in experience.

    Moreover, I didnt see anything wrong with Leonard in his last fight the way he was on his toes and barely being touched. In the words of the experts-if you aren't touched you are successful in the art of boxing or in the words of Tim Ryan "that was an absolutely masterful performance!"

    I'm just pointing out the facts. No ring rust. At the proper weight, favored 3-1, no problems in his last fight that you could point out, and having a vast edge in experience. Norris kicked ass.

    Everyone RIGHTFULLY expected Leonard to win-the same Leonard who two/four experts actually believed could take Micheal Nunn in a fight. How washed up could he be.

    Do me a favor Ron. Give me a list of writers picking Norris over Leonard and I'll be satsified
     
    redrooster, Nov 28, 2008
    redrooster, Nov 28, 2008
    #243
  4. DINAMITA

    DINAMITA Guest

    His resume is weaker, but although I prize resume highly, it is not the sole factor under consideration. IMO, Jones at 168 was as close to unbeatable as it gets, he would've beaten anyone in history there. I don't think Burley would've beaten anyone in history at his weight, nor would Griffith, nor would Louis, nor would Canzoneri. As I said earlier in this thread, I have given Jones special dispensation because of my subjective belief in his ability. This may very well be a weakness of my list, but it is what it is. MINE!! :D

    I have answered that point.

    He is more unproven than Moore, Ali, Duran, Walker - that's why he is below them. We are going round in circles here I fear! :nut But it is my subjective opinion that although he never proved he is the greatest fighter h2h ever, he is the closest thing to it (I never saw 147 SRR, and 135 Duran did lose a fight, 160-168 Jones did not). Again: special dispensation based on personal opinion, which I believe is permitted on a personal list.

    I disagree. This is becoming pretty tiresome, we simply have different beliefs regarding Jones. Jones piled on 20lbs of muscle and burned it off. Moore did not do this - and even if he did, that it didn't affect him but did affect Jones is not of any great importance, Moore coping with weight loss and gain better proves he has a different body type, nothing else.

    Jones was obviously far more past-it when he fought Tarver and Johnson than Hopkins was against Calzaghe or Pavlik, or than he himself was when he fought Woods and Ruiz - the evidence is that Hopkins was still capable of performing to a high level similar to the level he attained in his prime, whereas Jones was not capable of this, he wasn't capable of performing to anything like the same level he performed at even a year before v Woods and Ruiz.

    You proceed on the belief that steroids were a major influence on Jones, I do not. Simple as that.

    Thank you for your positive comments on the list. I believe that Jones was closer to the level of Leonard and Whitaker than he was to the level of Hearns and Mayweather, hence my placing of him, which I remain happy with!! :good
     
    DINAMITA, Nov 28, 2008
    DINAMITA, Nov 28, 2008
    #244
  5. DINAMITA

    DINAMITA Guest

    IMO, Ali and Louis are both far ahead of Rocky, both in terms of ability and resume (Ali more so than Louis obviously).
     
    DINAMITA, Nov 28, 2008
    DINAMITA, Nov 28, 2008
    #245
  6. DINAMITA

    DINAMITA Guest

    Really? I was sceptical about Walker a while back, but I've been reading a lot about him recently, and I think he has to be top 10.
     
    DINAMITA, Nov 28, 2008
    DINAMITA, Nov 28, 2008
    #246
  7. DINAMITA

    DINAMITA Guest

    Yes, I think this is a glaring omission that I may have to correct if I revise the list. Tiger and Harada are two I missed.
     
    DINAMITA, Nov 28, 2008
    DINAMITA, Nov 28, 2008
    #247
  8. DINAMITA

    DINAMITA Guest

    Yes. Didn't make the cut. IMO.
     
    DINAMITA, Nov 28, 2008
    DINAMITA, Nov 28, 2008
    #248
  9. DINAMITA

    DINAMITA Guest

    Canto I rate highly, he would definitely be 50-60. Basilio not so, he was not under consideration.
     
    DINAMITA, Nov 28, 2008
    DINAMITA, Nov 28, 2008
    #249
  10. DINAMITA

    DINAMITA Guest

    Thanks a lot mate really, much appreciated :good
     
    DINAMITA, Nov 28, 2008
    DINAMITA, Nov 28, 2008
    #250
  11. DINAMITA

    DINAMITA Guest

    :lol: :good
     
    DINAMITA, Nov 28, 2008
    DINAMITA, Nov 28, 2008
    #251
  12. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I think this is a very good list.

    Inevitable critiques from this corner:

    * Ali, Monzon, Leonard, and Jones are ranked too high.

    * Burley, Jofre, Napoles, and Spinks are ranked too low.

    * Oversights: Manuel Ortiz, Tiger Flowers, Tommy Loughren, Miguel Canto, Joey Giardello, Duilio Loi (who beat your #29 two out of three and retired with a 115-3 record), also perhaps Benitez? Locche? Cervantes?
     
    Stonehands89, Nov 28, 2008
    Stonehands89, Nov 28, 2008
    #252
  13. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I wouldn't dispute their inclusion...
     
    Stonehands89, Nov 28, 2008
    Stonehands89, Nov 28, 2008
    #253
  14. DINAMITA

    DINAMITA Guest

    Great fighters, especially Cerdan, locks for a top 100 obv, but they didn't make the cut for my 50. If someone else had them in theirs, fair enough though.
     
    DINAMITA, Nov 28, 2008
    DINAMITA, Nov 28, 2008
    #254
  15. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I agree that Loi has a shout for the 50, but he is maybe not a lock...I'd say Williams (the one getting done in your lovely avatar) and maybe Dixon if you want to go back that far.
     
    McGrain, Nov 28, 2008
    McGrain, Nov 28, 2008
    #255
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