For my 5,000th post : My Pound-for-Pound Top 50 Fighters of All-Time..

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by DINAMITA, Nov 24, 2008.



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  1. Joe E

    Joe E Well-Known Member Full Member

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    May 12, 2007
    3 good wins over an entire carrer. Is that all you got? Right.
     
    Joe E, Jun 25, 2011
    Joe E, Jun 25, 2011
    #391
  2. kmac

    kmac On permanent vacation Full Member

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    i'm just glad to see this argument is between two fighters that are the elite of the elite in the history of the sport. it's hard to argue against any of these points.
     
    kmac, Jun 25, 2011
    kmac, Jun 25, 2011
    #392
  3. goat15

    goat15 Active Member Full Member

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    Nov 10, 2010
    so was charles.

    yes.

    and again. although burley was never a 'champion' as such. a technicality i think.

    resume underpins everything. achievements mean little without considering against whom they were achieved.
     
    goat15, Jun 25, 2011
    goat15, Jun 25, 2011
    #393
  4. goat15

    goat15 Active Member Full Member

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    Nov 10, 2010
    six wins over some of the greatest of all time. line up the respective win columns, you'll see the stark contrast.
     
    goat15, Jun 25, 2011
    goat15, Jun 25, 2011
    #394
  5. Jorodz

    Jorodz watching Gatti Ward 1... Full Member

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    burley
    moore
    bivins
    marshall
    maxim
    walcott
    elmer ray

    even if you don't count ray on there, those are some ****ing great scalps
     
    Jorodz, Jun 25, 2011
    Jorodz, Jun 25, 2011
    #395
  6. Joe E

    Joe E Well-Known Member Full Member

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    May 12, 2007
    And Louis KOd 3 of 4 former Champions within the first 2 years of his carrer. Which means nothing. OK. By this thinking, we are back at what did either Man accomplish overall. What did Charles do that would put him head and shoulders above Louis? We could go on all day like this.
     
    Joe E, Jun 25, 2011
    Joe E, Jun 25, 2011
    #396
  7. goat15

    goat15 Active Member Full Member

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    Nov 10, 2010
    end of the day, you left off louis, and the fact he beat most of them more than once, and the list is still special.
     
    goat15, Jun 25, 2011
    goat15, Jun 25, 2011
    #397
  8. goat15

    goat15 Active Member Full Member

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    huh? louis is one of the greatest, why would that stuff mean 'nothing'?
     
    goat15, Jun 25, 2011
    goat15, Jun 25, 2011
    #398
  9. goat15

    goat15 Active Member Full Member

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    Nov 10, 2010
    oh right, you're from detroit. my bad.
     
    goat15, Jun 25, 2011
    goat15, Jun 25, 2011
    #399
  10. Joe E

    Joe E Well-Known Member Full Member

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    May 12, 2007
    Obviously.....:lol:
     
    Joe E, Jun 25, 2011
    Joe E, Jun 25, 2011
    #400
  11. horst

    horst Guest

    What are you, some sort of ****ing idiot? :huh

    I'll re-post the same post again, and maybe this time you can actually read it.

     
    horst, Jun 26, 2011
    horst, Jun 26, 2011
    #401
  12. horst

    horst Guest

    So, now that your feeble point over Louis's record being numerically more impressive than Charles's has been absolutely shot down in flames, your argument for having Louis rank higher now seems to be essentially that Louis was more highly regarded at the time (as heavyweight champions often have been, it has always been the most high-profile division)? Congrats Burt, that's another ****-poor line of reasoning there.

    Yes Louis may have been more dominANT than Charles, but this brings us back to the point from earlier - statistically, Sven Ottke was more dominant than Emile Griffith, because Griffith incurred losses throughout his career due to the fact that was fighting anyone and everyone in his weight range over a long period of time, while Ottke carefully handpicked each opponent. Who was greater? Griffith obviously. So the principle that the fighter who incurred fewer losses is automatically superior just does not fly.

    Charles's top wins:

    Moore x3
    Burley x2
    Louis
    Walcott x2
    Bivins x4
    Maxim x5
    Marshall x2
    Lesnevich
    Elmer Ray

    You find me 21 wins on Louis's resume to even come anywhere remotely close to matching this 21, and I disappear off this thread forevermore.

    :smoke
     
    horst, Jun 26, 2011
    horst, Jun 26, 2011
    #402
  13. Joe E

    Joe E Well-Known Member Full Member

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    May 12, 2007
    :rofl Are you?

    Heres the list you asked for. After your citique you may denegrate each Man, or comment that Charles fought his Men before he became a Champion, as you will. Makes no difference. Louis still stands above Charles on any ATG list. :good

    Carnera*
    Baer*
    Schmeling*
    Sharkey*
    Jim Braddock*
    John H. Lewis*
    Galento
    Conn* 2x
    Nathan Mann
    Bob Pastor
    Godoy 2x
    Walcott* 2x
    Lou Nova
    Buddy Baer
    Cesar Brion
    Jimmy Bivins
    Tommy Farr

    *Champions.
     
    Joe E, Jun 26, 2011
    Joe E, Jun 26, 2011
    #403
  14. horst

    horst Guest

    Except the vast majority of serious boxing fans knowledgable about that era know that Charles's resume is clearly, clearly superior. Ask Lora, sweet_scientist, McGrain, any of the big hitters. They will confirm what I am trying to explain to you. Your list pales in comparison with this:

    If you still don't understand this, I strongly suggest you do more research, watch more fights, and speak to some more people, because you're just flat-out wrong. :good
     
    horst, Jun 26, 2011
    horst, Jun 26, 2011
    #404
  15. Joe E

    Joe E Well-Known Member Full Member

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    May 12, 2007
    Dont have to ask. I understand. Charles resume is solid to say the least. As Louis' is. Fighting the best availible Men including 4 ex Champions early in his carrer. His title reign unmatched. Cleaning out an entire division during 3 decades of boxing. 25 title defences, a record that I believe still stands. Nearly 12 years a Champion. Also a record. Yes, Louis' resume is quite good. And he stands above Charles in any ATG list for a reason.
     
    Joe E, Jun 26, 2011
    Joe E, Jun 26, 2011
    #405
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