For Pac fans... Tale of the Tape

Graybox · May 13, 2010

:good

YelloLabs · May 13, 2010

Excellent points there Buzz . . you can even add Floyd's "One dimensional fighter . . easy fight" and adds a road block on negotiation :rofl Why chicken? LOL

welb · May 13, 2010

I'm convinced. Mayweather yet again fighting someone he has every conceivable advantage against going in. No credit if he wins.

Buzz Killington · May 13, 2010

charlievint said: ↑

It's actually not this ^^^^ complicated! Manny is a special fighter and to beat anther speacial fighter you have got to have the style and tools in order to do so.

Talent wise.....Manny and Floyd are on level......Athletic ability...same thing. What seperates Manny and Floyd is right there on the surface for everyone to see....their styles.

Floyd is a great boxer, highly skilled, cautious and cool. He sticks to his game plan that can change when necessary. Not that Floyd is unbeatable or doesn't make mistakes b/c he does. The problem is most don't have the style or the tools to compete.

Manny on the other hand is very skilled, a offensive machine with a very unorthodox yet very effective style. Manny's attributes are similar to floyd's but Manny best attribute is his stamina and awkwardness.

Manny doesn't have a set rhythm in the ring..he's a fighter who is fluid at times and "shake n bake" the others. Darting in and out, left to right, punching from all sorts of angles in combinations. He's a pressure fight like no one has seen.

Floyd is a slick, defensive master counter puncher. He should be able to catch Manny b/c Manny is high volume and with being a high volume fighter you leave openings. With that said Floyd likes to wait for his opening to take place, sit back and counter....usually that is effective from guys in an orthodox stance with one......maybe two shots at a time.

Manny will not be orthodox......Floyd will not have an easy time anticipating his opponents next move b/c of his awkwardness and unusual rhythm. And Floyd will have a hard time finding breathing room to get off with his own offense.

Now with Floyd's "D"....he'll avoid much of Manny's offense...but not all of it. ANd YES....he'll land on Manny but I don't think it will be enough to win a decision b/c Manny will outwork and out hustle Floyd the majority of rounds.

Could Floyd win...YES....It's quite possible and probably the most likely outcome based on how things look on paper.. Floyd is bigger, taller, longer and has a classic text book boxing style. Where Manny is smaller, shorter with a very unorthodox style. But I see Manny having some kind of mental edge with Floyd already loosing in some regard by expressing his concern about Manny. He used a front of saying PAC was on roids and didn't want to fight a dirty fighter.

If they fight and if Manny wins best believe Floyd bringing up PAC being on some special Phillipine drugs that are undetectable by terrestrial testing.
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That was actually a pretty good counter argument.

Buzz Killington · May 13, 2010

blur said: ↑

youre saying like pac has zero chance of winning against floyd. so pac roided or not is an easy fight right? so why is it your idol is demandingn OSDT?
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I'm saying have a good reason or simply admit that you like Pac better. It'd spare a few pointless arguments.

zchen · May 13, 2010

Buzz Killington said: ↑

6) Pac has known weakness to body attack (KO'd with body shot)

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when was this?? Torrecampo fight??atsch

Body shots from Cotto/Hatton is a lot powerful than Torrecampo..

TheJuggernaut · May 13, 2010

Thanks buzz. Ill remember how limited and overmatched pac was after floyd crushes him. Thanks for effectively ruining any chance of flotd getting credit for this win

Buzz Killington · May 13, 2010

TheJuggernaut said: ↑

Thanks buzz. Ill remember how limited and overmatched pac was after floyd crushes him. Thanks for effectively ruining any chance of flotd getting credit for this win
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Floyd wasn't going to get credit regardless. If I could do this before the fight, who wouldn't be able to afterwards. I think the fight will still sell like hotcakes. I think Pac has a chance, I just want to read something more than "Pac is a god."

puertorricane · May 13, 2010

Buzz Killington said: ↑

I've posted this in the comments a few times and Pac fans won't respond so I've decided to bring this to the general forum to get an answer...

The way I see it, Pac goes into his fight with Mayweather with major disadvantages:

1) Pac is shorter - 5'6 1/2" vs. 5'8"

2) Pac has shorter reach by 5"

3) Pac is susceptible to counters (see: EVERY fight he's ever had, vs. JMM)

4) Pac is susceptible to left hooks (see: destroyed right ear vs. Cotto)

5) Pac is susceptible to straight rights (see: vs. Morales, vs. Clottey)

6) Pac has known weakness to body attack (KO'd with body shot)

7) Pac hasn't shown ability to fight or handle a fighter moving backwards (see: EVERY fight he's ever had)

8) Unlike Shane Mosley, Pac doesn't have 1, or 2, or 3, or 4 punch KO power (see: all Pac TKOs... other than Hatton, Pac has not stretched any opponent over 140 pounds and all of them finished the fight on their feet after rounds of flush combinations from Pac. Even at lower weights, Pac TKOs almost all from accumulation)

9) Pac throws a lot, lands a little (Pac's total connect percentage almost always <35%)

10) Pac has no jab, eats the jab (see: every Pac fight, vs. Morrales, vs. Cotto)

These are just the 10 off the top of my head. Now can someone tell me which one of these does NOT play into Mayweather's hands? Can someone provide a SANE argument for why Manny will beat Mayweather if they meet?

Let's look at some other issues:

1) Pac beat DLH and Hatton in more impressive fashion than Floyd - let's look at the tape:

Pac/Hatton @140, Floyd/Hatton @147 - Floyd fought a bigger, stronger version of Hatton. Oh, that's right, 140 was Hatton's "best weight." So, let me get this straight... Pac can move up TWO weight classes from the Diaz fight and be FASTER and MORE COORDINATED while Hatton moves up ONE weight class and suddenly can't fight? Hatton walks around at 190... so am I supposed to believe that having 7 MORE pounds of muscle wouldn't have helped him in his fight against Floyd? And, if that is the case, how is it that Pac can do what almost NO fighter does by going up TWO weight classes and not lose any speed or coordination?

2) Pac/DLH @147, Floyd/DLH @154 - Am I now supposed to believe that Pac beating DLH at 147 was a better win than Floyd beating DLH at 154? DLH walks around at 160-165. He hadn't made 147 in over six years. No question that Floyd's win over a younger, stronger DLH was a better quality win.

3) Pac vs. Cotto @145 catchweight - Pac fought DLH at 147, but made Cotto come down to 145. Why? If the two pounds didn't make a difference, why not fight him at 147?

4) Pac "destroyed" Clottey @147 - OK, Pac throws 1200 punches against a stationary opponent, hammers his body and DOESN'T KO him? Pac's supposedly vicious body attack could not get Clottey to drop his guard... where was all of Pac's vaunted punching power? And how do you land only TWENTY PERCENT against a guy who isn't punching back? Even if you make the excuse that Clottey was in his shell, wouldn't a guy with Pac's supposed power and open access be able to get Clottey to drop his guard?

5) Pac's "KO" power - Other than Hatton, who has Pac KO'd with one punch... or two... or three... or four, etc. DLH and Cotto were still standing after being nailed with flush combination after flush combination. Diaz only succumbed to Pac's assault after 9 brutal rounds of pummeling. Pac stunned Cotto with two flush counters and couldn't get him to sit down even after 12 rounds. Clottey took 1200 of Pac's best and he looked better after the fight than Pac. Shane Mosley has a history of stunning and KOing people with one punch... Pac doesn't. PERIOD.

I'm still trying to figure out why people think Pac will beat Mayweather. Mayweather recuperated immediately after getting hit with two SSM right hands... am I supposed to believe Pac is a harder puncher even though there is absolutely no proof of that?

Let's put the nuthugging behind us and address the issues. If Pac fans are serious, then someone PLEASE offer some RATIONAL reason why Pac will beat Floyd.
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ponitless post and thread filled with hatred and bias against a great boxer that has proven himself time and time again.. your breakdown of pacquiao is garbage.. a world champion in seven different weight classes but he sucks.. lol eastside forums are fulled with fanatics and delusional fans that cant give credit to anybody except the fighters they like

:hat

puga_ni_nana · May 13, 2010

tell this to floyd and maybe he can stop worrying how good pac is and stop his *****-ass demand.

Lupe · May 13, 2010

Buzz Killington said: ↑

I've posted this in the comments a few times and Pac fans won't respond so I've decided to bring this to the general forum to get an answer...

The way I see it, Pac goes into his fight with Mayweather with major disadvantages:

1) Pac is shorter - 5'6 1/2" vs. 5'8"

2) Pac has shorter reach by 5"

3) Pac is susceptible to counters (see: EVERY fight he's ever had, vs. JMM)

4) Pac is susceptible to left hooks (see: destroyed right ear vs. Cotto)

5) Pac is susceptible to straight rights (see: vs. Morales, vs. Clottey)

6) Pac has known weakness to body attack (KO'd with body shot)

7) Pac hasn't shown ability to fight or handle a fighter moving backwards (see: EVERY fight he's ever had)

8) Unlike Shane Mosley, Pac doesn't have 1, or 2, or 3, or 4 punch KO power (see: all Pac TKOs... other than Hatton, Pac has not stretched any opponent over 140 pounds and all of them finished the fight on their feet after rounds of flush combinations from Pac. Even at lower weights, Pac TKOs almost all from accumulation)

9) Pac throws a lot, lands a little (Pac's total connect percentage almost always <35%)

10) Pac has no jab, eats the jab (see: every Pac fight, vs. Morrales, vs. Cotto)

These are just the 10 off the top of my head. Now can someone tell me which one of these does NOT play into Mayweather's hands? Can someone provide a SANE argument for why Manny will beat Mayweather if they meet?

Let's look at some other issues:

1) Pac beat DLH and Hatton in more impressive fashion than Floyd - let's look at the tape:

Pac/Hatton @140, Floyd/Hatton @147 - Floyd fought a bigger, stronger version of Hatton. Oh, that's right, 140 was Hatton's "best weight." So, let me get this straight... Pac can move up TWO weight classes from the Diaz fight and be FASTER and MORE COORDINATED while Hatton moves up ONE weight class and suddenly can't fight? Hatton walks around at 190... so am I supposed to believe that having 7 MORE pounds of muscle wouldn't have helped him in his fight against Floyd? And, if that is the case, how is it that Pac can do what almost NO fighter does by going up TWO weight classes and not lose any speed or coordination?

2) Pac/DLH @147, Floyd/DLH @154 - Am I now supposed to believe that Pac beating DLH at 147 was a better win than Floyd beating DLH at 154? DLH walks around at 160-165. He hadn't made 147 in over six years. No question that Floyd's win over a younger, stronger DLH was a better quality win.

3) Pac vs. Cotto @145 catchweight - Pac fought DLH at 147, but made Cotto come down to 145. Why? If the two pounds didn't make a difference, why not fight him at 147?

4) Pac "destroyed" Clottey @147 - OK, Pac throws 1200 punches against a stationary opponent, hammers his body and DOESN'T KO him? Pac's supposedly vicious body attack could not get Clottey to drop his guard... where was all of Pac's vaunted punching power? And how do you land only TWENTY PERCENT against a guy who isn't punching back? Even if you make the excuse that Clottey was in his shell, wouldn't a guy with Pac's supposed power and open access be able to get Clottey to drop his guard?

5) Pac's "KO" power - Other than Hatton, who has Pac KO'd with one punch... or two... or three... or four, etc. DLH and Cotto were still standing after being nailed with flush combination after flush combination. Diaz only succumbed to Pac's assault after 9 brutal rounds of pummeling. Pac stunned Cotto with two flush counters and couldn't get him to sit down even after 12 rounds. Clottey took 1200 of Pac's best and he looked better after the fight than Pac. Shane Mosley has a history of stunning and KOing people with one punch... Pac doesn't. PERIOD.

I'm still trying to figure out why people think Pac will beat Mayweather. Mayweather recuperated immediately after getting hit with two SSM right hands... am I supposed to believe Pac is a harder puncher even though there is absolutely no proof of that?

Let's put the nuthugging behind us and address the issues. If Pac fans are serious, then someone PLEASE offer some RATIONAL reason why Pac will beat Floyd.
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This is a good post. And with all this knowledge make you wonder why Floyd has these testing demands against Pac. Maybe Floyd sees in Pac something we can't see?

charlievint · May 13, 2010

Buzz Killington said: ↑

That was actually a pretty good counter argument.
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Thanks! It's just a bit odd that everyone is on this tip that Floyd or Manny is gonna have an easy night....the one or the other is gonna dominate and get the easy KO.:roll: It's not simple.....this fight is pretty complex with the EXTREME differences in these two fighters. They are polar opposites in style and demeanor. Yet very similar with the god given tools and attributes they were blessed with.

THis is what I would call a perfect storm. Styles that conflict......personalities that clash......fighters who are considered not only the best of their divisions...but the best in ALL OF BOXING. P4P #1a and #1b.....it's the perfect fight at the perfect time b/c both men are at their overall best in terms of their skills and experience and both are in their PHYSICAL PRIME.

When some begin to loose the physical edge with wear and tear and age they are usually still operating at a high level b/c of the experience and skills they've garnered as a pro.....you see with the greats. Nard, Shane, DLH, Duran, Hearns, leonard ect.

Floyd and Manny right now are at their PEAK! In all areas and right now we have a chance to see a classic.....if they can get past negotiations.

Relentless · May 13, 2010

ok we get it pac is smaller, shorter, shitter

whats the point of this fight then?

Buzz Killington · May 13, 2010

Lupe said: ↑

This is a good post. And with all this knowledge make you wonder why Floyd has these testing demands against Pac. Maybe Floyd sees in Pac something we can't see?
Click to expand...

Yeah, the fact that Pac has moved up in weight while getting FASTER and MORE COORDINATED, something almost no boxer does. He also sees Pac throwing 100 punches per round and getting nailed with flush shot and counters and he's STILL as dangerous in the last round as he is in the first. PEDs are more important for their RECUPERATIVE benefits in boxing than the strength gains (even though they're considerable too). If Manny isn't cheating, why not just take the blood tests? Fighters risk their lives when they step into the ring... to expect someone to not look out for their own health when they have a question about another fighter is ridiculous.

mking · May 13, 2010

:thinkPac has been always smaller then everyone he has fought in the past 8yrs.

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