For Pac fans... Tale of the Tape

puga_ni_nana · May 13, 2010

UliUli said: ↑

See, one thing *******s will never understand, is that you can be a fan of a fighter and fan of boxing without being a groupie.

I can root for one, and like both like in the DLH-Mayweather fight, DLH-Vargas fight, or Castillo-Corrales fight.

Or I can root for both like in the Mayweather-Mosley fight, Mayorga-Vargas fight, Diaz-Marquez fight.

For TRUE boxing fans, all is possible.
Click to expand...

bravo true-boxing fan. but you are still a whinning ****. :good

empiricix · May 13, 2010

Buzz Killington said: ↑

I've posted this in the comments a few times and Pac fans won't respond so I've decided to bring this to the general forum to get an answer...

The way I see it, Pac goes into his fight with Mayweather with major disadvantages:

1) Pac is shorter - 5'6 1/2" vs. 5'8"

2) Pac has shorter reach by 5"

3) Pac is susceptible to counters (see: EVERY fight he's ever had, vs. JMM)

4) Pac is susceptible to left hooks (see: destroyed right ear vs. Cotto)

5) Pac is susceptible to straight rights (see: vs. Morales, vs. Clottey)

6) Pac has known weakness to body attack (KO'd with body shot)

7) Pac hasn't shown ability to fight or handle a fighter moving backwards (see: EVERY fight he's ever had)

8) Unlike Shane Mosley, Pac doesn't have 1, or 2, or 3, or 4 punch KO power (see: all Pac TKOs... other than Hatton, Pac has not stretched any opponent over 140 pounds and all of them finished the fight on their feet after rounds of flush combinations from Pac. Even at lower weights, Pac TKOs almost all from accumulation)

9) Pac throws a lot, lands a little (Pac's total connect percentage almost always <35%)

10) Pac has no jab, eats the jab (see: every Pac fight, vs. Morrales, vs. Cotto)

These are just the 10 off the top of my head. Now can someone tell me which one of these does NOT play into Mayweather's hands? Can someone provide a SANE argument for why Manny will beat Mayweather if they meet?

Let's look at some other issues:

1) Pac beat DLH and Hatton in more impressive fashion than Floyd - let's look at the tape:

Pac/Hatton @140, Floyd/Hatton @147 - Floyd fought a bigger, stronger version of Hatton. Oh, that's right, 140 was Hatton's "best weight." So, let me get this straight... Pac can move up TWO weight classes from the Diaz fight and be FASTER and MORE COORDINATED while Hatton moves up ONE weight class and suddenly can't fight? Hatton walks around at 190... so am I supposed to believe that having 7 MORE pounds of muscle wouldn't have helped him in his fight against Floyd? And, if that is the case, how is it that Pac can do what almost NO fighter does by going up TWO weight classes and not lose any speed or coordination?

2) Pac/DLH @147, Floyd/DLH @154 - Am I now supposed to believe that Pac beating DLH at 147 was a better win than Floyd beating DLH at 154? DLH walks around at 160-165. He hadn't made 147 in over six years. No question that Floyd's win over a younger, stronger DLH was a better quality win.

3) Pac vs. Cotto @145 catchweight - Pac fought DLH at 147, but made Cotto come down to 145. Why? If the two pounds didn't make a difference, why not fight him at 147?

4) Pac "destroyed" Clottey @147 - OK, Pac throws 1200 punches against a stationary opponent, hammers his body and DOESN'T KO him? Pac's supposedly vicious body attack could not get Clottey to drop his guard... where was all of Pac's vaunted punching power? And how do you land only TWENTY PERCENT against a guy who isn't punching back? Even if you make the excuse that Clottey was in his shell, wouldn't a guy with Pac's supposed power and open access be able to get Clottey to drop his guard?

5) Pac's "KO" power - Other than Hatton, who has Pac KO'd with one punch... or two... or three... or four, etc. DLH and Cotto were still standing after being nailed with flush combination after flush combination. Diaz only succumbed to Pac's assault after 9 brutal rounds of pummeling. Pac stunned Cotto with two flush counters and couldn't get him to sit down even after 12 rounds. Clottey took 1200 of Pac's best and he looked better after the fight than Pac. Shane Mosley has a history of stunning and KOing people with one punch... Pac doesn't. PERIOD.

I'm still trying to figure out why people think Pac will beat Mayweather. Mayweather recuperated immediately after getting hit with two SSM right hands... am I supposed to believe Pac is a harder puncher even though there is absolutely no proof of that?

Let's put the nuthugging behind us and address the issues. If Pac fans are serious, then someone PLEASE offer some RATIONAL reason why Pac will beat Floyd.
Click to expand...

You want a straight-up answer as to why Pacfans and *******s believe that Pac will win against Floyd? It has nothing to do with logic or stats, though we can spout just as many and argue just as forcefully as you Joyboys. Truth be told, it is based on our faith alone, plain and simple. Faith that is borne out of Pac's proven ability of overcoming the odds countless of times despite what logic, stats and naysayers said.

We do not fear if Pac should lose to Mayweather. He had already far exceeded our expectations for a long time now. We believe in our hearts that his legacy is firmly established, regardless of how high you or anyone else rank him in the ATG list. The mere fact that we are even debating today who's better between him and Floyd, which would have been laughable just two years ago, is proof enough of Pac's accomplishments.

Mayweather? He's just the gravy. And oh, what a gravy we'll be having if Pac finds the will and the power to overcome the odds one last time!

So, ask not a *******, "Why do you believe?" It is sufficient that we do.

empiricix · May 13, 2010

UliUli said: ↑

See, one thing *******s will never understand, is that you can be a fan of a fighter and fan of boxing without being a groupie.

I can root for one, and like both like in the DLH-Mayweather fight, DLH-Vargas fight, or Castillo-Corrales fight.

Or I can root for both like in the Mayweather-Mosley fight, Mayorga-Vargas fight, Diaz-Marquez fight.

For TRUE boxing fans, all is possible.
Click to expand...

I have nothing against "TRUE boxing fans". If you have the ability to root for more than one fighter and to appreciate all styles, then good for you. However, there is something to be said when one fighter sets your adrenaline surging and your heart racing whenever he fights, when you feel a strong personal and emotional investment in that fighter's victory or defeat. If that makes me a boxing groupie, then so be it. Although I suspect that there are more groupies like me out there.

TheMAN · May 13, 2010

Buzz Killington said: ↑

I've posted this in the comments a few times and Pac fans won't respond so I've decided to bring this to the general forum to get an answer...

The way I see it, Pac goes into his fight with Mayweather with major disadvantages:

1) Pac is shorter - 5'6 1/2" vs. 5'8" - so?

2) Pac has shorter reach by 5" - so what?

3) Pac is susceptible to counters (see: EVERY fight he's ever had, vs. JMM) He can take it all day without getting KD

4) Pac is susceptible to left hooks (see: destroyed right ear vs. Cotto)
He can also take it all
5) Pac is susceptible to straight rights (see: vs. Morales, vs. Clottey)
Same as above
6) Pac has known weakness to body attack (KO'd with body shot)
was it when it was stone age?
7) Pac hasn't shown ability to fight or handle a fighter moving backwards (see: EVERY fight he's ever had)
And again he won those every fight you are refering to
8) Unlike Shane Mosley, Pac doesn't have 1, or 2, or 3, or 4 punch KO power (see: all Pac TKOs... other than Hatton, Pac has not stretched any opponent over 140 pounds and all of them finished the fight on their feet after rounds of flush combinations from Pac. Even at lower weights, Pac TKOs almost all from accumulation)
You are correct but if you notice pac has higher KO % than mayweather. Not taking anything from may what I am trying to say that they have different style of winning each fight
9) Pac throws a lot, lands a little (Pac's total connect percentage almost always <35%)
Yeah and mayweather throws less and most of those hits the audience to sleep.
10) Pac has no jab, eats the jab (see: every Pac fight, vs. Morrales, vs. Cotto)
He eats those jabs because it doesn't hurt

These are just the 10 off the top of my head. Now can someone tell me which one of these does NOT play into Mayweather's hands? Can someone provide a SANE argument for why Manny will beat Mayweather if they meet?
IS THAT ALL?
Let's look at some other issues:

1) Pac beat DLH and Hatton in more impressive fashion than Floyd - let's look at the tape:

Pac/Hatton @140, Floyd/Hatton @147 - Floyd fought a bigger, stronger version of Hatton. Oh, that's right, 140 was Hatton's "best weight." So, let me get this straight... Pac can move up TWO weight classes from the Diaz fight and be FASTER and MORE COORDINATED while Hatton moves up ONE weight class and suddenly can't fight? Hatton walks around at 190... so am I supposed to believe that having 7 MORE pounds of muscle wouldn't have helped him in his fight against Floyd? And, if that is the case, how is it that Pac can do what almost NO fighter does by going up TWO weight classes and not lose any speed or coordination?

2) Pac/DLH @147, Floyd/DLH @154 - Am I now supposed to believe that Pac beating DLH at 147 was a better win than Floyd beating DLH at 154? DLH walks around at 160-165. He hadn't made 147 in over six years. No question that Floyd's win over a younger, stronger DLH was a better quality win.

3) Pac vs. Cotto @145 catchweight - Pac fought DLH at 147, but made Cotto come down to 145. Why? If the two pounds didn't make a difference, why not fight him at 147?

4) Pac "destroyed" Clottey @147 - OK, Pac throws 1200 punches against a stationary opponent, hammers his body and DOESN'T KO him? Pac's supposedly vicious body attack could not get Clottey to drop his guard... where was all of Pac's vaunted punching power? And how do you land only TWENTY PERCENT against a guy who isn't punching back? Even if you make the excuse that Clottey was in his shell, wouldn't a guy with Pac's supposed power and open access be able to get Clottey to drop his guard?

5) Pac's "KO" power - Other than Hatton, who has Pac KO'd with one punch... or two... or three... or four, etc. DLH and Cotto were still standing after being nailed with flush combination after flush combination. Diaz only succumbed to Pac's assault after 9 brutal rounds of pummeling. Pac stunned Cotto with two flush counters and couldn't get him to sit down even after 12 rounds. Clottey took 1200 of Pac's best and he looked better after the fight than Pac. Shane Mosley has a history of stunning and KOing people with one punch... Pac doesn't. PERIOD.

I'm still trying to figure out why people think Pac will beat Mayweather. Mayweather recuperated immediately after getting hit with two SSM right hands... am I supposed to believe Pac is a harder puncher even though there is absolutely no proof of that?

Let's put the nuthugging behind us and address the issues. If Pac fans are serious, then someone PLEASE offer some RATIONAL reason why Pac will beat Floyd.
Click to expand...

:-(

ybfake · May 13, 2010

Buzz Killington said: ↑

I've posted this in the comments a few times and Pac fans won't respond so I've decided to bring this to the general forum to get an answer...

The way I see it, Pac goes into his fight with Mayweather with major disadvantages:

1) Pac is shorter - 5'6 1/2" vs. 5'8"

2) Pac has shorter reach by 5"

3) Pac is susceptible to counters (see: EVERY fight he's ever had, vs. JMM)

4) Pac is susceptible to left hooks (see: destroyed right ear vs. Cotto)

5) Pac is susceptible to straight rights (see: vs. Morales, vs. Clottey)

6) Pac has known weakness to body attack (KO'd with body shot)

7) Pac hasn't shown ability to fight or handle a fighter moving backwards (see: EVERY fight he's ever had)

8) Unlike Shane Mosley, Pac doesn't have 1, or 2, or 3, or 4 punch KO power (see: all Pac TKOs... other than Hatton, Pac has not stretched any opponent over 140 pounds and all of them finished the fight on their feet after rounds of flush combinations from Pac. Even at lower weights, Pac TKOs almost all from accumulation)

9) Pac throws a lot, lands a little (Pac's total connect percentage almost always <35%)

10) Pac has no jab, eats the jab (see: every Pac fight, vs. Morrales, vs. Cotto)

These are just the 10 off the top of my head. Now can someone tell me which one of these does NOT play into Mayweather's hands? Can someone provide a SANE argument for why Manny will beat Mayweather if they meet?

Let's look at some other issues:

1) Pac beat DLH and Hatton in more impressive fashion than Floyd - let's look at the tape:

Pac/Hatton @140, Floyd/Hatton @147 - Floyd fought a bigger, stronger version of Hatton. Oh, that's right, 140 was Hatton's "best weight." So, let me get this straight... Pac can move up TWO weight classes from the Diaz fight and be FASTER and MORE COORDINATED while Hatton moves up ONE weight class and suddenly can't fight? Hatton walks around at 190... so am I supposed to believe that having 7 MORE pounds of muscle wouldn't have helped him in his fight against Floyd? And, if that is the case, how is it that Pac can do what almost NO fighter does by going up TWO weight classes and not lose any speed or coordination?

2) Pac/DLH @147, Floyd/DLH @154 - Am I now supposed to believe that Pac beating DLH at 147 was a better win than Floyd beating DLH at 154? DLH walks around at 160-165. He hadn't made 147 in over six years. No question that Floyd's win over a younger, stronger DLH was a better quality win.

3) Pac vs. Cotto @145 catchweight - Pac fought DLH at 147, but made Cotto come down to 145. Why? If the two pounds didn't make a difference, why not fight him at 147?

4) Pac "destroyed" Clottey @147 - OK, Pac throws 1200 punches against a stationary opponent, hammers his body and DOESN'T KO him? Pac's supposedly vicious body attack could not get Clottey to drop his guard... where was all of Pac's vaunted punching power? And how do you land only TWENTY PERCENT against a guy who isn't punching back? Even if you make the excuse that Clottey was in his shell, wouldn't a guy with Pac's supposed power and open access be able to get Clottey to drop his guard?

5) Pac's "KO" power - Other than Hatton, who has Pac KO'd with one punch... or two... or three... or four, etc. DLH and Cotto were still standing after being nailed with flush combination after flush combination. Diaz only succumbed to Pac's assault after 9 brutal rounds of pummeling. Pac stunned Cotto with two flush counters and couldn't get him to sit down even after 12 rounds. Clottey took 1200 of Pac's best and he looked better after the fight than Pac. Shane Mosley has a history of stunning and KOing people with one punch... Pac doesn't. PERIOD.

I'm still trying to figure out why people think Pac will beat Mayweather. Mayweather recuperated immediately after getting hit with two SSM right hands... am I supposed to believe Pac is a harder puncher even though there is absolutely no proof of that?

Let's put the nuthugging behind us and address the issues. If Pac fans are serious, then someone PLEASE offer some RATIONAL reason why Pac will beat Floyd.
Click to expand...

Great post:good You wont get many rational replies. You mention Cotto at 145 catch weight. At this level of competition you best believe they knew going into the fight that the only way Cotto was making 145 was to lose 2lbs of muscle.....thus taking away his best advantage going into the fight which was his strength.

VX.Nefarious · May 13, 2010

mking said: ↑

:thinkPac has been always smaller then everyone he has fought in the past 8yrs.
Click to expand...

WRONG! 2008 manny weighed more than JMM

empiricix · May 13, 2010

ybfake said: ↑

Great post:good You wont get many rational replies. You mention Cotto at 145 catch weight. At this level of competition you best believe they knew going into the fight that the only way Cotto was making 145 was to lose 2lbs of muscle.....thus taking away his best advantage going into the fight which was his strength.
Click to expand...

Try telling that to Cotto, who repeatedly stated before, during and after the fight that he never had a problem with the 145 catch weight.

TheJuggernaut · May 13, 2010

empiricix said: ↑

You want a straight-up answer as to why Pacfans and *******s believe that Pac will win against Floyd? It has nothing to do with logic or stats, though we can spout just as many and argue just as forcefully as you Joyboys. Truth be told, it is based on our faith alone, plain and simple. Faith that is borne out of Pac's proven ability of overcoming the odds countless of times despite what logic, stats and naysayers said.

We do not fear if Pac should lose to Mayweather. He had already far exceeded our expectations for a long time now. We believe in our hearts that his legacy is firmly established, regardless of how high you or anyone else rank him in the ATG list. The mere fact that we are even debating today who's better between him and Floyd, which would have been laughable just two years ago, is proof enough of Pac's accomplishments.

Mayweather? He's just the gravy. And oh, what a gravy we'll be having if Pac finds the will and the power to overcome the odds one last time!

So, ask not a *******, "Why do you believe?" It is sufficient that we do.
Click to expand...

And the lord sayeth,
nay, forsake thou not, thine manny pacquiao,
obey thine laws of the church of the pac-ith man!
And oust thine devils, of which go by-ith the name Fraudith Gayweather.

blastmaster122 · May 13, 2010

One issue I have is why people keep thinking that Pac eats so many jabs. This is one thing that Roach has been working on with Pacquiao since probably their first day together when Pac was still looking for a trainer (probably because he DID struggle against the jab back when he fought mainly in Asia).

This content is protected

This content is protected

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCZrOPrP-3o[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ui-7QZLuDD0[/ame]

sdsfinest22 · May 13, 2010

puga_ni_nana said: ↑

yeah and i saw you cheering for floyd when he fought oscar. yay!
Click to expand...

Uli went for his fighter....of course your not gonna root for the opponent when you have your favorite fighter fighting..I like mayweather and i like mosley but i wasnt rooting for him...same with the oscar-mayweather fight for oscar fans who like floyd but still went for their fighter :good

Buzz Killington · May 13, 2010

blastmaster122 said: ↑

One issue I have is why people keep thinking that Pac eats so many jabs. This is one thing that Roach has been working on with Pacquiao since probably their first day together when Pac was still looking for a trainer (probably because he DID struggle against the jab back when he fought mainly in Asia).

This content is protected

This content is protected

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCZrOPrP-3o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ui-7QZLuDD0
Click to expand...

1) The jabs were telegraphed, so they were easily timed and countered.

2) Watch Pac drop his right hand with the counter. A feint with the jab then a quick left hook will neutralize that straight left. Feint with the jab and a straight or hook right also neutralizes it. Floyd will counter Manny's counter all day.

3) Floyd's jab is crisp. He pulls it back quick and keeps his right hand high tp pick off counters.

Pac will get set up all day.

roversbowers · May 13, 2010

another shitty im up mayweathers ass thread

pejevan · May 13, 2010

Buzz Killington said: ↑

I've posted this in the comments a few times and Pac fans won't respond so I've decided to bring this to the general forum to get an answer...

The way I see it, Pac goes into his fight with Mayweather with major disadvantages:

1) Pac is shorter - 5'6 1/2" vs. 5'8"

2) Pac has shorter reach by 5"

3) Pac is susceptible to counters (see: EVERY fight he's ever had, vs. JMM)

4) Pac is susceptible to left hooks (see: destroyed right ear vs. Cotto)

5) Pac is susceptible to straight rights (see: vs. Morales, vs. Clottey)

6) Pac has known weakness to body attack (KO'd with body shot)

7) Pac hasn't shown ability to fight or handle a fighter moving backwards (see: EVERY fight he's ever had)

8) Unlike Shane Mosley, Pac doesn't have 1, or 2, or 3, or 4 punch KO power (see: all Pac TKOs... other than Hatton, Pac has not stretched any opponent over 140 pounds and all of them finished the fight on their feet after rounds of flush combinations from Pac. Even at lower weights, Pac TKOs almost all from accumulation)

9) Pac throws a lot, lands a little (Pac's total connect percentage almost always <35%)

10) Pac has no jab, eats the jab (see: every Pac fight, vs. Morrales, vs. Cotto)

These are just the 10 off the top of my head. Now can someone tell me which one of these does NOT play into Mayweather's hands? Can someone provide a SANE argument for why Manny will beat Mayweather if they meet?

Let's look at some other issues:

1) Pac beat DLH and Hatton in more impressive fashion than Floyd - let's look at the tape:

Pac/Hatton @140, Floyd/Hatton @147 - Floyd fought a bigger, stronger version of Hatton. Oh, that's right, 140 was Hatton's "best weight." So, let me get this straight... Pac can move up TWO weight classes from the Diaz fight and be FASTER and MORE COORDINATED while Hatton moves up ONE weight class and suddenly can't fight? Hatton walks around at 190... so am I supposed to believe that having 7 MORE pounds of muscle wouldn't have helped him in his fight against Floyd? And, if that is the case, how is it that Pac can do what almost NO fighter does by going up TWO weight classes and not lose any speed or coordination?

2) Pac/DLH @147, Floyd/DLH @154 - Am I now supposed to believe that Pac beating DLH at 147 was a better win than Floyd beating DLH at 154? DLH walks around at 160-165. He hadn't made 147 in over six years. No question that Floyd's win over a younger, stronger DLH was a better quality win.

3) Pac vs. Cotto @145 catchweight - Pac fought DLH at 147, but made Cotto come down to 145. Why? If the two pounds didn't make a difference, why not fight him at 147?

4) Pac "destroyed" Clottey @147 - OK, Pac throws 1200 punches against a stationary opponent, hammers his body and DOESN'T KO him? Pac's supposedly vicious body attack could not get Clottey to drop his guard... where was all of Pac's vaunted punching power? And how do you land only TWENTY PERCENT against a guy who isn't punching back? Even if you make the excuse that Clottey was in his shell, wouldn't a guy with Pac's supposed power and open access be able to get Clottey to drop his guard?

5) Pac's "KO" power - Other than Hatton, who has Pac KO'd with one punch... or two... or three... or four, etc. DLH and Cotto were still standing after being nailed with flush combination after flush combination. Diaz only succumbed to Pac's assault after 9 brutal rounds of pummeling. Pac stunned Cotto with two flush counters and couldn't get him to sit down even after 12 rounds. Clottey took 1200 of Pac's best and he looked better after the fight than Pac. Shane Mosley has a history of stunning and KOing people with one punch... Pac doesn't. PERIOD.

I'm still trying to figure out why people think Pac will beat Mayweather. Mayweather recuperated immediately after getting hit with two SSM right hands... am I supposed to believe Pac is a harder puncher even though there is absolutely no proof of that?

Let's put the nuthugging behind us and address the issues. If Pac fans are serious, then someone PLEASE offer some RATIONAL reason why Pac will beat Floyd.
Click to expand...

It's Official :

Mayweather is 45***0-0

***includes considered wins against Maragrito, Pacquiao, Williams

Why would there be a need to fight when offically he won already!

IDIOTS and NEWBIES

pejevan · May 13, 2010

Buzz Killington said: ↑

1) The jabs were telegraphed, so they were easily timed and countered.

2) Watch Pac drop his right hand with the counter. A feint with the jab then a quick left hook will neutralize that straight left. Feint with the jab and a straight or hook right also neutralizes it. Floyd will counter Manny's counter all day.

3) Floyd's jab is crisp. He pulls it back quick and keeps his right hand high tp pick off counters.

Pac will get set up all day.
Click to expand...

So, you can counter after being hit?

Buzz Killington · May 13, 2010

roversbowers said: ↑

another shitty im up mayweathers ass thread
Click to expand...

Why, did your mom post something?

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